Polymorph spell.

Not the worst idea though.

Yes, it is.
And being able to play a high elf and effortlessly join the Stormcloaks DESTROYS the whole concept of roleplaying.



You guys should really learn, what an RPG actually before talking about it. Play some DSA or Shadowrun for example (pen&paper), and learn how much fun it is to be forced to make real choices.
An Ork should be able to get stronger than a human could be, a high elf should be able to get better in magic than an Ork could, and a Nord should have some meaningful advantages for classic warrior-style play.

In Skyrim you don't chose a race!
You chose an avatar/player-skin without any meaning.

Firstly, it's become so tiresome to me to read "the racist Nords". Seriously, although I don't give one-half of a flying rat's butt-tocks about the presence of "racism" in a videogame between make-believe pixel people, it's starting to bug me that players are in general so obtuse that they hear about a couple Nords being mean to some other make-believe people, and then these obtuse players pull out the old "irony playbook" and stereotype all the "Nords" as 'racist'. I mean, how perfectly can the pot call a kettle "cookware" if it's not by stereotyping fake people by saying they are all racist to another group of make-believe folks in a videogame, and pointing out the situation as if those pots are getting political correctness points they can trade in for fun and profit? Bewildering. It used to be mildly funny, and now it's just some kind of accepted fact...about make believe pixel people. Are all ya'll for real? Tell me it's a joke, please

Secondly, and the major thing...choice of race does mean something. You even point it out in your post, but then dismiss it:

"I mean apart from starting stats and bonuses racial choice means nothing"

So in other words, in order to support your argument, I'm supposed to ignore the fact that racial choice actually has an impact, because you prefer that the discussion supports your viewpoint despite facts to the contrary. Did TES players all have extra helpings of the crazycake lately?

That makes sense in theory although if someone wants to roleplay an Altmer that's against the Thalmor, they would be SOL.

I recall a quest in Shivering Isles where as a Khajiit, an Orc with a phobia of cats would tell you off, and you would be unable to do his quest to get a Skinned Hound as a companion.

In fact I do believe to my knowledge, that this my be the only quest in any of the games that is very much effected by racial choices.

I don't know, what SOL means.
Playing an Altmer, who's against the Thalmor should be no problem .. still people should be suspicious. In that case it would be part of the roleplay to be confronted with prejudices.

At the moment, you can't roleplay a lot, because the NPCs doesn't give you the necessary feedback.

Yes they are.
Before you try to question what I am saying maybe you should look at my past post. I have made several comments about how limiting this game is and characters should be unique and diverse all the while I am being bombarded by those that defend the utter lack of options. There should be diversity with the races I never said there should not be. It was said earlier in this thread the races should be removed. Its about makin who we want and we should. I want more not less and by your post I think you want the same thing my friend.

Feedback. That's the games number 1 problem right there. No one really reacts appropriately to who you are or what you do.

+1

And addressing another comment; If Nords (as an example) as a race make crappy mages, and I want to be a Nord mage, the challenge of bringing him up to par with an Altmer or a Breton mage is part of the intrigue.

My opinion on the OP topic is that race should not have huge, completely limiting effects on gameplay (that would take a lot of planning, writing, and programming anyway), but it should have more effect than it does in Skyrim. To pull from another post before mine, an Altmer being able to waltz in and become a Stormcloak soldier without so much as a snide remark is actually irritating.

Indeed, it is.

@http://www.gamesas.com/user/591608-otheral/
Yes I do.
I've probably read your post in the wrong context then ... it's late already. Sorry for that.
Good night.

Blue text hurts eyes ><;

The point he, and several others, have made time and again is this:

You take a High Elf who gets 50 extra Magicka and the Highborn ability, you plow them through the Heavy Armor, Two Handed, Smithing, and Block perks, you upgrade Health/Stamina only, and then enchant their Armor/Weapons... you get a High Elf that can fight and take damage pretty much on the same level of an Orc who did the same thing.

That's the issue here. That me picking a High Elf can be built up to be a nearly carbon copy of an Orc. We're not saying making a Warrior Tank High Elf shouldn't be possible, what we're saying is that there should be a fairly large gap between what a Tank High Elf can manage and what a Tank Orc can manage. Your racial ability, in the case of Orc's Berserk, are usually once a day skills, so once it's used there is even less difference between a Tank High Elf and a Tank Orc.

That's the issue.

It's like if you went into D&D and wanted to make a Human Ranger or Human Assassin instead of an Elf Ranger or a Drow Assassin. A Human Ranger or Assassin is possible to do but to get to the same skill level as a race that is better suited for the job should be harder, and rarer, to do.

Probably because of voice acting. But, no way in hell that will ever go away.

I agre with this but it you should be able to do it, and they should also be viable.

YES! OMG YES!!!
Soon, we will be playing not a consolified TES series, BUT A OMFG iPHONE/WII/NDS TES PWNZOR SERIES!!! WOOOOO!!!

and you xbox ppl will complain about how the menu's dont work when you put your fingers on the TV cause its a STRAIGHT PORT FROM THE iPHONE!!!!

Exactly. It's the [censored] bane of the series. It also makes writing dialogue for the latter games a massive pain in the rear end.

Reason why it's limited is the same reason why a lot of things from a roleplaying standpoint are limited in the game, Voice Acting. That right there is basically putting chains on people because you can only do so much with Voice Over due to memory but with Text you have so many more options. I could compare DAO to DAII, you have so many more options in DAO in comparasion to DAII because of the no voice over protagonist in DAO and the fact that DAII was rushed and has a voiced main character, the latter getting the majority of blame. Skyrim has similar qualities to DAO, it has voiced characters but Skyrim has more voiced NPC's thus taking up more memory.

In Oblivion, I made a Wood Elf named Keeblor.

Yes, everything (or almost everything) should be possible to the player... however said "everything" doesn't have to be done in one single playthrough.

Currently, you pretty much can do everything in Skyrim in one playthrough. It somewhat, to me and to some others it seems, diminishes the whole RPG aspect if on one character (especially if it's an Elf) that I can become the head of every guild and the hero for the Stormcloaks. It's just... it pulls you out of the story sometimes and doesn't warrant additional playthroughs.




One thing I believe they could have done is not make every single line of conversation use voice acting unless it's a special person. I don't really need every vendor to say something to me through voice acting when I choose the option to see what they have for sale.

Well the Dovakiin is a special person, so there isn't anything indicating that he can't be one of the rare "Elf tanks" or "Orc mages". However, I do agree that race needs more differentiating factors. A more subtle change that I'd like to see is patching the game so the races start off with all stats at like 5 or 1, except for their specialized stats. That way, it's much harder to build up an Elf tank, Orc mage, or Nord mage at the beginning of the game. Then, as you gain experience, the game becomes progressively easier (because your character is adapting to his or her role) and this sense of progression actually makes sense.

I also saw another idea on the board that I liked, but it was posted much earlier so I can't find it. Making it so that skills that the races are specialized in (i.e. magic skills for elves; melee combat for Orcs; etc) can go above 100 really helps in immersion. The poster also suggested having special perks for the race, which I also agreed with. Perhaps an Orc who reached 150 or 175 in one-handed would be able to do a kill animation where they bit off someone's neck, in true beast fashion. Or maybe a High Elf who reached 150 or 175 in destruction magic would gain access to a set of special "High Elf only" spell list which is lore-friendly. To make it even more special, skills would take 2x longer to level past 100. That way, an Orc with 200 in one-handed can have some really OP perks because he's just that good.

The above idea would also help differentiate races from each other. While Orcs and Nords can both get up to 200 in one-handed, for example, they would have different perks which cater to their lore fighting style. This gives impact to the race you choose AND, while it limits roleplaying options, makes playing an out-of-his-element character much more rewarding because you feel different from other characters in the game (Nord mages would be weaker than High Elf mages, but you'd be unique in that you'd never see a battalion of Nord mages fighting in an army).

That is where the player should control their compulsion to do everything in one play threw. You should limit yourself, and develop your character the way you want and you create your own restrictions. Thats does not mean hey I am going to be the best at everything, you set and follow your characters goals.

True, but I believe it is the same test for all races. I think it would be more... real, i guess the word is... if the Stormcloaks needed more persuasion from a race they consider inferior - IE every race apart from Nord.

I definitely agree with you. I even feel that perhaps the player should be allowed to pick one of his major or minor skills upon creation and designate it as their true specialty which might give it an initial boost and perhaps an additional % to experience gained in it.


I agree with this also, however I would not be against TES taking a page from BioWare in terms of KotoR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect, or even Pokemon, where you may need multiple playthroughs just to get everything.

Like Morrowind and Fallout 2, yes I agree it should've been setup like that. Have the important people like Esbern, Jarls, Delphine, Dragons, etc be voiced, have NPC's that aren't really important not voiced. Some would argue, breaking of immersion, others would scream freedom. If we had that system in place I believe more options could be added in roleplay but I doubt Beth will ever do this and hell the way the video game media is they would criticize this instead of praising it.

I really liked the Great Houses of Morrowind, it would be nice to have something faction based like that where the groups could not get along and you must choose one.

I would like more than four faction and I too agree on some you must pick one or the other.

You don't want inherent restrictions, as you think the player should restrict themselves, but like the Great Houses, and like that the player must choose?

Self-imposed restrictions are a crutch. If the game cannot give you proper feedback to what you're doing (including what race you select), then it's failing. If you don't spec into magic skills, then you shouldn't be expected to get far in the College of Winterhold. If you play a Khajiit, city-goers should be extra-suspicious of you. Etc.