The perk system makes sense cause it forces you to specialize. People say destruction is weak, but I wonder if they've tried taking every single shock perk and cast thunderbolt or lightning storm......almost nothing has a resistance to shock except a storm atronoch.

For PC players, I fully recommend this mod by bluedanieru
http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9745

It add books to many vendor lists that grant you perks.

great post!

and, it highlights the problems with the system and the fact that there is LESS customization and options in skyrim.

I the idea of it right now is not that good, it should be used to supplement attribues and let attribute effect your characters physical abilities and so on let skills and perks be how proficint you are with that skill.

Also the perks are mainly just percent increases and they do not really add to the character in a meaningful way some of the perks do but most of them leave much to be desired.

The perk system is childish and seems more made for glossy graphic effect than anything really thought out for character skills.

To have perks outright replace attributes was one of the worst casuals focused moves

Not quite satisfied. Many are uninspiring, too many luggage to reach the ones I like.

The perk system allows for specialization. The problem with Fallout is that it's hard to create a character that isn't good at everything. By the late game, no matter what your character was designed to be, he became good at everthing which defeats the purpose of roleplaying.

And if every single perk was powerful, then you would end up with 40 overpowered perks by level 41.

The Perk system isn't even a perk system, in my book.

They basically just made skills [censored] useless and instead required that you level up your skill AND take the shiny perk or the skill remains useless. Also, coincidentally a lot of the abilities from Oblivion (that were gained at 25, 50, 75 and 100 for a skill level) have become perks in Skyrim. So yeah, they -LITERALLY- just converted the skill system into a perk system, which I consider stupid as [censored] because it's sort of a kick to the teeth to level my Two-handed to 60, have the game tell me "U HAS FREEDOM U CAN PICK WHAT YOU WANT!!!" but then soon discover that unless if I pick the basic Two-handed perk (the one with 5 ranks) as soon as possible, my character will be HELLA gimped.

I am not satisfied with the perk system. I got a mod to allow me to pick whatever perk I wanted... so as long as I meet the level requirement. I hate having to go through a predetermined set of perks to get to one I want.

I went into Skyrim thinking the perk system would take generic starting characters and over time make them defined and distinct but I don't feel it happening. You can spreadsheet and show me how it is working all day but in the end I don't feel it. So it needs improvement.

Personally, I like the Perk system just fine. Do I wish it went a little deeper? Yes. Do I realize that then the "Level Cap" would also be raised into the 100's? Yes.

As I said, I love the Perk system as it is, but I can also see where they could have easily added eight more Perks to each Skill Perk Tree. the skill set of your character would be so deep at that point that it would simply be even more amazing than it is now.

But as for the OP, I do like the Perk system as it stands, but I can easily see room for each tree to expand (maybe in the upcoming DLC? ) by seven or eight Perks more.

Is there a good attributes mod yet?

Check the PC Mods sub-forum.

Apart from some flaws such as useless perk trees and lack of variety the concept itself ties well in with the skill progression system and type of first-person action experience that TES involves. It is not as clumsy and crippled as the previous attribute system and more cohesive overall.

so having a perk tree system that is basically the selling point of the game and then making useless trees and perks that render skills useless, is acceptable, not crippled and cohesive?

Acceptable in that the flaws don't get in the way of the overall gameplay as much as they did before.

Once I maxed out Destruction, I forgot all about it.

and, what flaws from morrowind and oblivion does skyrim's perk system improve?

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you.

The Perk/Skill system is hardly the selling point of the game. It is part of it, but not even a major part. The open world RPG, exploration, etc. are much larger parts of the games' success than the Perk system.

More or less, but it could use some more work. Like nearly everything in Skyrim, really In theory with limited, non-refundable perks you cna make each characters unique even after they gain 100 in all skills, in practice the perks don't make big enough difference. Now, i'm going to get flamed for this, but see how Dragon Age 2 did perk trees: there are much fewer of them, but they all have a noticeable effect

But atleast that stupid attribute multiplier system is gone

open world and exploration are definitely the primary selling points. but, in general, i assume that people on this forum are well beyond those as 'selling points.'

i know it is for me. it's expected. it's required. it's a given.

regardless of that discussion of opinion, the perk system and leveling what you use are the 2 major 'selling points', attributes, whatever word you'd like, of skyrim when compared to morrowind and oblivion.

and, for such a huge part of what makes skyrim different to be so flawed, yet, accepted, doesn't work with me.

I hate that you are forced to take perks you have no interest in just to get to ones you are interested in.

I like the leveling system from Oblivion way better.

Certain skills like smithing were way too easy to level up early in the game making most armors weapons and armor irrelevant. What good is it to have Dwarven, Orcish, and Ebony armors when you can level up easy and qick enough to go from Steel plate armor right to deadric armor?

If you ask me, I think many things were "dumbed" down in Skyrim so that casual gamers would also want to play the game. Most people want to just fly through the game rather than take the time to learn everything. Each game is getting worse. You can't even make your own spells anymore!

When it comes to that, it's a good thing. Really, it is. Because it's supposed to relect your professionalism in a skill.

However, I think it should've been implemented in all skills like it was in one and two-handed skill, so that you choose a path to specialize in (axe, mace or sword).

I have a Love/Hate/Like relationship with Perks.

I love how I can create a nuanced character, like one that is good at Archery, but is not Uber at it.

I hate how I can only choose one Perk per level up, and I have to use up Prerequisite slots to get to the good ones.

What I think is we should have a list of Perks that we can choose from that are not related, other than coincidence, to our character's skills. In other words, we could grab a Perk that increases our Health a bit, or makes us more immune to disease or something like that. Kind of like what Fallout had. But, in addition, we get Perks for our skills at appropriate level ups for that skill. In other words, once we reach 50 in Lockpicking, then Adept Level Locks get easier to pick, without having to choose a perk for that. But, we may get to pick a perk at some point that makes our lockpicks stronger (but not unbreakable) or a Perk that keeps our swords sharper or something like that.

The attribute bonus system
Overpowered speed-attribute
The advantage of raising minor/other skills over major skills
Limiting characters from mastering everything