Why are the legion camp leaders essential?

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:40 pm

Either Beth made a mistake by not untaggiing them after they became superfluous or they have a legit reason and are just not telling us. Who cares? What's the big deal? Is it really gonna ruin your game experience if you're unable to kill off a few nameless NPC's?

You mean 1/3rd of the npcs in game.
User avatar
Emily Shackleton
 
Posts: 3535
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:36 am

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:45 pm

Either Beth made a mistake by not untaggiing them after they became superfluous or they have a legit reason and are just not telling us. Who cares? What's the big deal? Is it really gonna ruin your game experience if you're unable to kill off a few nameless NPC's?
1) They are named
2) It does break the game experience when you can't kill camp leaders when you're specifically instructed to do so. I do not really mind if I can't kill em before/during Civil War quest line. But after?
User avatar
Tina Tupou
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:37 pm

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:58 pm

For skillups?
User avatar
Eilidh Brian
 
Posts: 3504
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:45 am

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:46 am

And when you follow Stormcloak questline, Elisif is just a concubine for Ulfric. Either she's the High Queen or High King's Concubine

I wondered what happened to her. Does it actually mention her in the Stormcloak ending? I assumed she just ran off into hiding to avoid being killed.

When clearing a camp after the civil war campaign I just beat the officer up and then use the console to 'disable' him. Cheap trick I guess but at least I have an empty camp when it's all done so I feel like I accomplished something.
User avatar
Sakura Haruno
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:23 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:45 am



I wondered what happened to her. Does it actually mention her in the Stormcloak ending? I assumed she just ran off into hiding to avoid being killed.

When clearing a camp after the civil war campaign I just beat the officer up and then use the console to 'disable' him. Cheap trick I guess but at least I have an empty camp when it's all done so I feel like I accomplished something.

At the end of Stormcloak campaign Ulfric instructs Elisif to continue ruling Solitude. He gives some explanation why that I forget.
User avatar
Roddy
 
Posts: 3564
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:50 pm

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:40 pm

I wondered what happened to her. Does it actually mention her in the Stormcloak ending? I assumed she just ran off into hiding to avoid being killed.

When clearing a camp after the civil war campaign I just beat the officer up and then use the console to 'disable' him. Cheap trick I guess but at least I have an empty camp when it's all done so I feel like I accomplished something.
Don't really know, honestly. I was spoiled when I read stuff in UESP. She's not replaced, that's for sure. Well, best to have a hot chick to negotiate with than some old guy like Thongvor, or that granny Morthal Jarl, I forgot her name

You can use bEssentialTakeNoDamage = 0 in the .ini if I remember correctly. Disables their "kneeling of immortality", and allows you to actually decapitate the bunch
User avatar
Michelle Serenity Boss
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:49 am

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:12 am

Actually it's because of the complaining people did about "I broke this quest by failing Anger Management 101. Wahhhh!!!!!" in Morrowind and Oblivion. Honestly in Tribunal with that Bosmer guy in Mournhold I almost failed Anger Management.

People who make stupid decisions in Skyrim should have been forced to live with them. or reload.
User avatar
Danii Brown
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:13 am

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:08 pm

1) They are named
2) It does break the game experience when you can't kill camp leaders when you're specifically instructed to do so. I do not really mind if I can't kill em before/during Civil War quest line. But after?

Exactly.........If weren't instructed to wipe them all out then it wouldn't be a big deal. But it svcks to find a camp, try to wipe it out only to have the legate still alive in all of them.
User avatar
Emma Parkinson
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:53 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:52 am

But I've noticed while on walkabout when not a member of either faction, that the Imperials are really a bit edgy and downright nasty. I could walk into a Stormcloak camp and trade with their blacksmith. Try doing that with a Legion camp? I get within 30 yds. "That's close enough." So I walk away about 20 ft. to pick some berries and flowers. "Alright, you asked for it." And I'm taking arrows in my butt. So not wanting a fight try to get away, and the whole camp descends like white on rice. So everyone dead except the Imperial Legate in charge of the camp. Now they were in Stormcloak territory, which they of course view as theirs, and I'm just on a walk in the woods near my Riften home. So if the head on the block was strike one and two against the Empire, this was strike three. The Legate of course is essential, and crawled back to their camp, muttering "Stormcloak b****!"

Now I just avoid the Imperial camps. They'll get theirs soon enough. I think this is going to get fixed in a post Civil War DLC where either the empire withdraws (Stormcloak victory) from Skyrim, or the Stormcloak camps just disband and go home (Imperial victory). There will have to be a treaty signed between Skyrim and the Empire. This along with a new adventure, and I'm hoping it's as long as Tribunal.
User avatar
Jessie Rae Brouillette
 
Posts: 3469
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:50 am

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:01 am

You mean 1/3rd of the npcs in game.
And again, I ask, so what? Why is it so important to you to be able to kill these people off that it affects your enjoyment of the game? I'm honestly not trying to be snarky, I really would like to know, as I don't see how this could possibly be all that such of a much.
User avatar
Jessica Raven
 
Posts: 3409
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:33 am

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:31 am

1) They are named
2) It does break the game experience when you can't kill camp leaders when you're specifically instructed to do so. I do not really mind if I can't kill em before/during Civil War quest line. But after?
Ah I see. (BTW I've never gotten that far in the CW questline yet) I have to ask then, does not being able to kill these people make it impossible to finish the quest? If it does, then yes, I could see that as being a problem.
User avatar
Becky Cox
 
Posts: 3389
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:38 am

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:21 am

And again, I ask, so what? Why is it so important to you to be able to kill these people off that it affects your enjoyment of the game? I'm honestly not trying to be snarky, I really would like to know, as I don't see how this could possibly be all that such of a much.

As the person who started this thread, all I wanted to know was if there was a reason why they were essential. Like maybe I first needed to accept a quest from someone to kill a certain legate before I could.
I'd like to kill them, but it's no big deal that I can't. Plenty of other stuff to kill
User avatar
rolanda h
 
Posts: 3314
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:09 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:57 am

Actually it's because of the complaining people did about "I broke this quest by failing Anger Management 101. Wahhhh!!!!!" in Morrowind and Oblivion. ...
^^THIS
I agree.
User avatar
Emily Jones
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:33 pm

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:54 pm


And again, I ask, so what? Why is it so important to you to be able to kill these people off that it affects your enjoyment of the game? I'm honestly not trying to be snarky, I really would like to know, as I don't see how this could possibly be all that such of a much.

In a Bioware game I understand not being able to kill (or even attack) npcs. They are rpgs on rails which isn't bad or good its just different. In a gamesas game and a TES game more specifically I expect freedom. It's supposed to be a sandbox rpg, which means I should be able to kill whomever I want. This is the way it was in the past and it should continue to be.

So yes not being able to kill those Legates does hurt my enjoyment of the game. It reduces player freedom, and brings TES games closer to a Bioware style Rpg on rails which TES is not supposed to be, or at least wasn't supposed to be.

Also note its incredibly annoying to aggro invincible npcs and not have a decent way to win the battle, just for kicks commit a crime in the main hall at Dragonsreach. You'll have at least a half dozen or so invincible npcs chasing you forever. It's really lame
User avatar
BRAD MONTGOMERY
 
Posts: 3354
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:43 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:24 am

The problem is consequences. Take Delphine. Do I want her gone. Yes. She's 1) annoying as hell. 2) stupid 3) thinks she knows it all 4) annoying as hell. She's essential to the main plot. So if I kill her before I complete the main quest my main quest is broken and I cannot complete it. Then I come to the forums and b****, moan, and complain about the fact that Bethesda made a game that cannot be finished. Well, it's not just me, it's many many others. It's people writing reviews in magazines. Then the parents get involved and I really don't want my 102 yr old father having to call up gamesas and complain about how his daughter couldn't finish a game because they didn't program it right. Not just that but he probably couldn't hear them that well anyway. And he couldn't hear because he doesn't use his hearing aids. Yes he's still alive.

So because of stuff like that we get "plot" characters in Skyrim. Handling plot characters and changing them to non-plot and when to do that requires special scripting, and one has to make sure these days whether or not there is going to be any expansion that is going to use them, like in this case maybe a "Broken Blades" DLC (I know Fallout 3 ripoff, but you get the point).
User avatar
Loane
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:35 am

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:46 pm

But I've noticed while on walkabout when not a member of either faction, that the Imperials are really a bit edgy and downright nasty. [snip]

The same reactions are had in Stormcloak camps if you're pro-Empire, though. I can walk into Imperial camps and get high-fives, but if the Stormcloak camp people even see me on the horizon they ring the alert like an entire Legion was marching at them. :P
User avatar
Amanda Furtado
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:22 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:09 am

One last thought on my part, and this is strictly IMO. If the NPC's in question cannot be killed and that somehow breaks the game, that is indeed a problem. If it doesn't break the game, then complaining about it seems like extreme nit-picking to me.
User avatar
Gemma Flanagan
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:34 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:36 am

One last thought on my part, and this is strictly IMO. If the NPC's in question cannot be killed and that somehow breaks the game, that is indeed a problem. If it doesn't break the game, then complaining about it seems like extreme nit-picking to me.

I guess a reasonable correlation would be having a drauger in each tomb being unkillable. The CW quests do not include attacking the faction camps but the commanders do suggest 'hurting' the enemy, which is a pretty good motivation to raid the camps. The unkillable commanders seem to serve no purpose but to frustrate the player.
Broken? Nah. Severly sprained, though.
User avatar
Bambi
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:20 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:09 am

Because Bethesda liked the Essential tag so much, they decided to put it on almost every NPC in the game.


Except the npcs who NEEDED it, such as Lod. Either they are sadistic, or just being ironic.

My favorite is that Lod has been dead for 40 levels, before I knew what he was for. Yet, I can't finish
Blood on the ice because calixto is "essential" when I am supposed to KILL HIM.

In the future, I recommend playtesting.
User avatar
sas
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:40 am

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:19 pm

It's possible that premature removal of the leaders from the game due to death by dragon/dragonborn could stop things dead during the civil war due to soldiers being scripted to follow the leaders.

That's a guess as I personally haven't played through the civil war stuff yet, so I don't actually know how the battles play out.

^Your first paragraph..is actually one of the best guesses i have heard so far. Makes perfect sense.

I too, tried to get rid of those Legates that would not die, but decided to wait and see what the game had in store, and not try to comsole kill them or anything, if they would not die normally. Yet, i will be glad if they are just left-overs from the Civil War that don't know the war is over. LOL

(Anyway, i really do hope the Imperials Legions do not come back to Skyrim in a DLC. It was great getting rid of them, but a repeat of more of the same would be boring. I had already had it with them. I tried to clear them ALL out, but when these Legates would not die, i too wondered if they might be planning a comeback, whilst i was finally enjoying my Character's freedom so much. Ah ..finally freedom from their haughty Imperial oppression and bloody Thalmor puppet masters. ;) Glad it is not the case, that the Thalmor/Imperial oppressers will be back at it again, any time soon. LOL Having too much fun with my Talos honouring friends now! What would be fun in a DLC is to see is the High Elves having a Civil War to overthrow the Dominion, just like the Stormcloaks overthrew the Imperials and the Thalmor Overlords. It would even be great to play an Elven character helping to do that.)
User avatar
cosmo valerga
 
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:21 am

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:15 am

because they give you free cookies and are blind in one eye- dont question the power of cookies :clap: :trophy: :clap:
User avatar
lillian luna
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:43 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:36 am

^Your first paragraph..is actually one of the best guesses i have heard so far. Makes perfect sense.

I too, tried to get rid of those Legates that would not die, but decided to wait and see what the game had in store, and not try to comsole kill them or anything, if they would not die normally. Yet, i will be glad if they are just left-overs from the Civil War that don't know the war is over. LOL

(Anyway, i really do hope the Imperials Legions do not come back to Skyrim in a DLC. It was great getting rid of them, but a repeat of more of the same would be boring. I had already had it with them. I tried to clear them ALL out, but when these Legates would not die, i too wondered if they might be planning a comeback, whilst i was finally enjoying my Character's freedom so much. Ah ..finally freedom from their haughty Imperial oppression and bloody Thalmor puppet masters. :wink: Glad it is not the case, that the Thalmor/Imperial oppressers will be back at it again, any time soon. LOL Having too much fun with my Talos honouring friends now! What would be fun in a DLC is to see is the High Elves having a Civil War to overthrow the Dominion, just like the Stormcloaks overthrew the Imperials and the Thalmor Overlords. It would even be great to play an Elven character helping to do that.)

^
support!
the stormcloak questline was really epic, and im a high elf! i just loved kicking imperial butt all the time, makes me feel good ;)
User avatar
Rusty Billiot
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:22 pm

Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:03 pm

Either Beth made a mistake by not untaggiing them after they became superfluous or they have a legit reason and are just not telling us. Who cares? What's the big deal? Is it really gonna ruin your game experience if you're unable to kill off a few nameless NPC's?

Actually, yes.
There should be no immortal NPC's in the game.
Any immortal NPC kills the gaming experience.

I would rather have them respawn when the game needed them, then have them be immortal.
It just goes against the entire premise of an open world in which youre free to do what you want.
User avatar
Tha King o Geekz
 
Posts: 3556
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:14 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:20 am

Actually it's because of the complaining people did about "I broke this quest by failing Anger Management 101. Wahhhh!!!!!" in Morrowind and Oblivion. Honestly in Tribunal with that Bosmer guy in Mournhold I almost failed Anger Management.
Seeing as they aren't apart of any quests and you are actively TOLD to go and kill them I highly doubt that.
User avatar
Monika
 
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:50 pm

Post » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:14 am

One last thought on my part, and this is strictly IMO. If the NPC's in question cannot be killed and that somehow breaks the game, that is indeed a problem. If it doesn't break the game, then complaining about it seems like extreme nit-picking to me.
So in your opinion it is not right to complain about a "broken" game mechanic.
RPG's like Skyrim are also about immersion.. If a side tells you to get rid of the remaining opposite side, and you're unable to.. it sort of breaks the game for those who want to play it like that.
If Beth. didn't intend this.. then don't market it as such..
User avatar
Alexis Acevedo
 
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:58 pm

PreviousNext

Return to V - Skyrim