Why are the legion camp leaders essential? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:54 am

Except the npcs who NEEDED it, such as Lod. Either they are sadistic, or just being ironic.

My favorite is that Lod has been dead for 40 levels, before I knew what he was for. Yet, I can't finish
Blood on the ice because calixto is "essential" when I am supposed to KILL HIM.

In the future, I recommend playtesting.

Ouch. Well, if Bethesda even bothered to have ONE person play through the game normally...they'd have noticed so many bugs. (I had to reload because Blood on the Ice glitched and left me with a broken Necromancer Amulet.)

The problem is consequences. Take Delphine. Do I want her gone. Yes. She's 1) annoying as hell. 2) stupid 3) thinks she knows it all 4) annoying as hell. She's essential to the main plot. So if I kill her before I complete the main quest my main quest is broken and I cannot complete it. Then I come to the forums and b****, moan, and complain about the fact that Bethesda made a game that cannot be finished. Well, it's not just me, it's many many others. It's people writing reviews in magazines. Then the parents get involved and I really don't want my 102 yr old father having to call up gamesas and complain about how his daughter couldn't finish a game because they didn't program it right. Not just that but he probably couldn't hear them that well anyway. And he couldn't hear because he doesn't use his hearing aids. Yes he's still alive.

So because of stuff like that we get "plot" characters in Skyrim. Handling plot characters and changing them to non-plot and when to do that requires special scripting, and one has to make sure these days whether or not there is going to be any expansion that is going to use them, like in this case maybe a "Broken Blades" DLC (I know Fallout 3 ripoff, but you get the point).

In Morrowind, even if you killed an important NPC, there was ALWAYS a way to complete the Main Quest.

» Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:20 pm

In a Bioware game I understand not being able to kill (or even attack) npcs. They are rpgs on rails which isn't bad or good its just different. In a gamesas game and a TES game more specifically I expect freedom. It's supposed to be a sandbox rpg, which means I should be able to kill whomever I want. This is the way it was in the past and it should continue to be.

So yes not being able to kill those Legates does hurt my enjoyment of the game. It reduces player freedom, and brings TES games closer to a Bioware style Rpg on rails which TES is not supposed to be, or at least wasn't supposed to be.

If you ever played Morrowind you would have Doomed Prophecy all over your face. Generally I don't kill anyone unless they attack me first or I am quested to kill them. Being a random murderer gets you no where in games or in real life.

The only thing bothering me about the OP is the fact that you are instructed to wipe them out as you find them, and you can't. I have to believe this is an oversight from Bethesda and they just forgot to remove the essential flags after the rebellion quests were over. Personally it would be fun after the war quests to 'hunt down' the opposing camps, but you can't, this prevents it. Work arounds for PC users yes, but console users are (as always) just out of luck.

This is one of the many reasons I will NEVER own a Bethesda game for a console. They just don't fix, tweek or polish their games enough and they depend on users to make unofficial patches to fix their games. This of course leaves console users with nothing but a buggy game. Bethesda feels like if they just fix the Game Breaking bugs they are done. Well until they change their minds about that I'll be sticking to the PC version of their games.

ps - I guess I went into kind of a rant there. Sorry.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:12 am

If you ever played Morrowind you would have Doomed Prophecy all over your face. Generally I don't kill anyone unless they attack me first or I am quested to kill them. Being a random murderer gets you no where in games or in real life.

In a whole bunch of RPGs, including Skyrim, you can get more power in one way or another by murdering.

Skyrim: Sacrifice to Boethiath and you can get the Ebony Mail, feast at Namira's Shrine and you get her ring, murder those who are your friends and you can power up the Ebony Blade.
Fable I: Murder your sister and you get the Sword of Aeons.
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic: Murder most of your party and you can become Dark Lord of the Sith, get the Star Forge, and conquer the Republic.

Those are a few examples.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:57 am

People who make stupid decisions in Skyrim should have been forced to live with them. or reload.

christ almighty you really are like the thalmore arnt you, batch-crazy and sullen all the time

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:59 am

In a whole bunch of RPGs, including Skyrim, you can get more power in one way or another by murdering.

Skyrim: Sacrifice to Boethiath and you can get the Ebony Mail, feast at Namira's Shrine and you get her ring, murder those who are your friends and you can power up the Ebony Blade.

Those are a few examples.

Daedra anyone? I had one character join the DB and then do all the Daedra quests (seemed to fit). But he was the only one and the quests still picked who you killed in most cases (ebony blade an exception).

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:48 am

If you ever played Morrowind you would have Doomed Prophecy all over your face. Generally I don't kill anyone unless they attack me first or I am quested to kill them. Being a random murderer gets you no where in games or in real life.

The only thing bothering me about the OP is the fact that you are instructed to wipe them out as you find them, and you can't. I have to believe this is an oversight from Bethesda and they just forgot to remove the essential flags after the rebellion quests were over. Personally it would be fun after the war quests to 'hunt down' the opposing camps, but you can't, this prevents it. Work arounds for PC users yes, but console users are (as always) just out of luck.

This is one of the many reasons I will NEVER own a Bethesda game for a console. They just don't fix, tweek or polish their games enough and they depend on users to make unofficial patches to fix their games. This of course leaves console users with nothing but a buggy game. Bethesda feels like if they just fix the Game Breaking bugs they are done. Well until they change their minds about that I'll be sticking to the PC version of their games.

ps - I guess I went into kind of a rant there. Sorry.

ow no in truth you said what we are ALL thinking, but just dont have the guts to say XD

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:15 am

omg leburns you must of made a lot of posts to get that many shiny stars in that amount of time :dry:

LOL JEALOUS AND ANGRY WOMAN WATCH OUT :swear:

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:52 am

If that's the case it will be incredibly disappointing if they don't up the on screen npc count. The war was pretty bland due to so few participants in the battles, the defense of whiterun stands out as the best example.

I agree...lol my screen was filled with 12-15 ppl and that was in the middle of a war......WTH!!!!!!

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:08 am

I agree...lol my screen was filled with 12-15 ppl and that was in the middle of a war......WTH!!!!!!

Yeah 6 vs 6 is squad combat, not a war lol

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:18 am

If you ever played Morrowind you would have Doomed Prophecy all over your face. Generally I don't kill anyone unless they attack me first or I am quested to kill them. Being a random murderer gets you no where in games or in real life.

The only thing bothering me about the OP is the fact that you are instructed to wipe them out as you find them, and you can't. I have to believe this is an oversight from Bethesda and they just forgot to remove the essential flags after the rebellion quests were over. Personally it would be fun after the war quests to 'hunt down' the opposing camps, but you can't, this prevents it. Work arounds for PC users yes, but console users are (as always) just out of luck.

This is one of the many reasons I will NEVER own a Bethesda game for a console. They just don't fix, tweek or polish their games enough and they depend on users to make unofficial patches to fix their games. This of course leaves console users with nothing but a buggy game. Bethesda feels like if they just fix the Game Breaking bugs they are done. Well until they change their minds about that I'll be sticking to the PC version of their games.

ps - I guess I went into kind of a rant there. Sorry.

You not wanting to kill people is your call, but Bethesda games are supposed to have choice and Skyrim reduces it on several fronts.

As for Beth screwing Console players, I'm on Ps3 so I agree whole heartedly

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:53 am

I'm sure they did play test the game and did so quite thoroughly. However they used a group of alpha and beta testers (I've done this stuff) who get referrals from other alpha and beta testers and usually have similar play styles to the original group. Then the game gets released to people who don't have the same play styles and don't go through quests the same way. I sometimes would go through dungeons backwards in some games.

» Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:24 pm

christ almighty you really are like the thalmore arnt you, batch-crazy and sullen all the time

I'm crazy and sullen because I think people should deal with the consequences of their actions? Okay then.