What happened to the evil chaotic character from van buren that brought bad luck to all?

This HH, not Van Buren, not all of the game will be rehashed in this game too, and why is so "emo" (?), I don know, BURNED doesnt sound you to anything

Like I've said many times, Van buren was NEVER MADE..
I don't understand why people just assume that things that were proposed in that 'game that never was', would be brought into NV exactly as they were planned for VB... :facepalm:

Not to mention Van Buren isn't canon since New Canaan got destroyed in Honest Hearts :sadvaultboy:

Van buren has never been canon, only used sometimes by people to 'make stuff up'.

How is he emo in the first place? He seemed pretty cool to me when I first met him...

well, lets see. Hes probably been humbled by the burning and stuff, not to mention the horrible pain he feels from it. As to why he isn't and evil [censored], he isn't killing for the evulz, hes killing because he wants to protect zion from the white legs, he views zion as a temple to God, and if you couldn't tell he is very religious

He seems to be a much deeper character than he was going to be in Van Buren. He's awesome.

Well, when you're a religious guy who's sinned as much as he has, it's bound to be a bit of a bummer.

Whether or not Van Buren is canon, I still would've vastly preferred the Van Buren version of Graham. An unrepentant evil psychopath would've been cooler.

I was half expecting him to be an imposter, and Salt-Upon-Wounds to be the real Graham.

Oh i dont know......maybe it had something to do with the whole BURNT ALIVE AND THROWN INTO THE GRAND CANYON thing

I just found his character to be boring, rather cliché actually:

1. Character is a good guy.
2. He then does something to help people and in doing it becomes far more darker and evil and deluded into thinking he was right in what he was doing.
3. An incident happens that makes the character remember who he used to be and realize what he has changed into.
4. And now he battles with his inner demons as to what is right and what is wrong, trying to be a good person yet the hunger of evil still growls inside of him.

Seen it before.
Nothing unique really.
Him being completely chaotic evil on the other than in a "Just want to watch the world burn" kinda way is still cliché but at least far more interesting depending on just how evil he really is.
There are actually far too few "evil" characters in New Vegas, sure, it's good when there's that gray morality, but that's what makes a chaotic evil character stand out so much more.

As to him being an emo, nah, Boone takes the cake, Graham lives in lolipop land compared to that depressed sack of [censored].

Boone is emo?

You realise emo is short for 'emotional' right? I personally found Boone to be just about the coldest character in the game, second only to ED-E..
Takes you freakin ages just to get him to speak more than a few words to you :S

Haven't played HH because I play via my PS3 but I'm guessing JG doesn't fit into the 'emo' category either...
Depressed doesn't = emo. Annoying cry-babies who talk about their feelings, cut on themselves etc are 'emo'..

I agree with Dario Meza on this one. The Burned Man aka Joshua Graham is not the same scripted character from Van Buren (Chris Avelone, I'm sure, made many statements prior to the release of New Vegas that New Vegas is not simply Van Buren but a differential equivalent). Joshua is not his original planned "Van Buren" personality and hes deffinelty not an "emo"... you have your facts on that completely wrong. Hes more of a crusader in Zion, believing the teachings of christianity to be the moral compass to set humanity back on the right path. He makes countless references to "being cleansed twice" and the bible by quoting many passages in his daily actions showing he governs himself by those teachings. He felt this way in the Legion if you ask him, plus he admits the Legion was wrong in its direction and it was already a "dying brahman". Infact I'd go as far to say hes nothing like I imagined him to be from what I read too. I love what Obsidian and Bethesda have shaped him into.

it was pretty cliche what they did with Graham. i'm just tired of the 'struggle within' meme characters.

I'm pretty sure half the people b'awwing are doing it because he's religious. Oh no, god forbid a character follows religion, out of the, what, 200+ MINIMAL people in the series we see who wouldnt flinch at killing for kicks and giggles? Graham WAS evil, but after his 'baptism by fire' it served as an eye openening reemergence of his spirituality. To call Graham 'good' is not completely accurate. It's more he follows in his own way, but he will resort to violence to upholds what he deems good. But I believe Graham is better for Zion than Daniels evacuation.

actually the mormon teachings were welcomed. most games tend to avoid anything remotely close to religion (well ones that aren't overtly preaching) in fear of political correctness and such.

What he said.

He was still religous in his Van Buren version, quoting bible verses and such despite his evilness.

I'm just disappointed they made him out to be this monstrous badass, and he turns out to be a wuss helping people in a cave.

The game never says he IS a monster. People say he WAS a monster. IE, in his life in the Legion as the Malpais Legate, he was known to be cruel, merciless, and impossible to kill. When he was burned, that all changed, he's essentially the Protigale Son parable from the Bible.

I'm guessing the other half are b'awwing because Graham is critical of Eddie's Legion. I've noticed a tendency in Legion lovers to gloss around the edges; they had Graham figured as a monstrous man-mountain, spouting jingoistic jargon, killing everything with a glare, indestructible (well, that part was true) and generally making Lanius look like sloppy seconds. But above all, despite Eddie's betrayal, Graham HAD to still be loyal to the Sacred Ramblings. Basically, they wanted a character to reinforce their positive view of the Legion.

Instead, they got a human being who had a good think and realized, and stated in the game, that it was all a tissue of lies and barbarity (tissue of barbarity?).

I loved Graham. I'm bothered that he disappeared in my first playthrough, but that's what I get for helping Daniel.

That's why I like Graham. He was born and raised religious, and strayed, and after suffering he took the time to reflect on what he had been doing with his life. I applaud Obsidian for making a deep character like Graham. Personally, I don't find him the cliche good, nor the ridiculous 'HURR DURR I KILL ALL I SEE' Graham from the Van Buren documents. I like how Graham aims to amend for his sins, to protect those in his home. I suppose some people have no real regards for the human spirit as a theme of a story though.

My definition of emo is: A depressed sad [censored] who should just put a shotgun up his/her mouth and pull the trigger.
Kids that has spiky black hair with lots of piercings and crap aren't emo to me.
People who are really emotional aren't emo to me.
Boone is.
A sad pathetic [censored].
:D

Fine by him, but if he sees crimson he s shooting.

Boone is a man with post tramatic stress disorder PTSD. For 2 reasons

1 war, war never changes.
2 He had to shoot his own wife in the head, so she wouldn t be a cl six toy/slave.
Boone is a super well written character. Men with war inflicted PTSD sometimes never talk about what happened to make them the way they are. They just own it. Boone doesn t ask you to feel bad for him.

Boone going to the place where he felt the PTSD was created is what some men do in real life. After that his ending shows he s getting better, but he will never fully escape the ghosts of the past.

Who ever thought up Boone either knows someone with war inflicted PTSD real well, or did a great amount of research. He is a very realistic soilder suffering from PTSD.

"Fine by me"

I agree, Van Buren's Graham was going to be pretty darn one dimensional. I'm glad that Obsidian added some depth to what was going to be little more than a villainous companion NPC. Don't get me wrong, I did quite like how Graham was going to be an evil companion NPC that the player had no real control over... that was an interesting dynamic that I would still like to see in an RPG at some point. On the other hand I think Honest Hearts does the character more justice in a way, because he's actually presented as a character with depth as opposed to Jericho with a power level over 9000.