Elder scrolls games have never been hailed for rich and engaging combat engines.

Well, that's fine. Elder Scrolls games are SUPPOSED to be about exploration, right?

Right?

The problem with that is that combat is essential in these games. It's highly recommended that you have at least one combat skill in each game to specialize in. You can't just be a diplomat and talk your way through the game; eventually, you're going to HAVE to fight for your life.

And it's not even "eventually." You're thrown into combative situations from the very start, even if you're just fighting off animals.

Combat is so important in this game that it NEEDS to be fun! If you're not going to make the combat fun, you should make the combative situations few and far between. Or, at the very least, you should have the OPTION of diplomacy, instead of merely having to choose between magic, combat, or stealth. Actually, I'd prefer that anyway. Even if I wouldn't use it, at least it would more fully realize the ambition of "do what you want, play how you want" that Bethesda ultimately wants to do.

Thoughts?

"Fun" is in the eye of the beholder. I find it fun.

I'm okay with the way combat is implemented is Skyrim.

I'm not sure that diplomacy would be a realistic option for most Skyrim enemies types, e.g., draugur, vampires, trolls, etc.

You have to option to attempt to gull common "highwaymen" with the "do I look like I have any money".

A few others give you the "back off" thing and don't attack so long as you follow their "back off" demand.

Speak for yourself. I agree with the guy above me.

Skyrims combat is a huge improvement over Morrowind and Oblivions combat, and in those games combat was a necessary evil too.

^This

I find the combat quite enjoyable! The melee combat has taken a huge step from Oblivion and for the first time has become my primary form of destroying my enemies...

Daggerfall's combat owns. Swing the weapon in whatever direction you want with the mouse.

the combat is fun - its just about the only thing in the game that is. As a hack n slash dungeon crawler it is not a bad game. I find I need magic to make the combat more interesting though - just swinging a sword is always going to get boring after a whle no matter how you jazz it up

ditto

more quests that could be solved other than by combat would be good but:

• its hardly been a big feature of the series
  
• it needs to be more involved than just a speechcraft test. Just did a quest for a NPC that involved convincing half a dozen tough guys to back off. Not very satisfying to have it come down to just an Intimidate test

In Role Playing Games, combat is the core of it. Along with "Role Playing". There's a reason every RPG ever have things like "magic" and "equipments", it's because if you don't fight for your life, it's no longer "RPG", it's "Life"

You might find it boring, many others, including me, don't.

I have no problem with combat, but you know there are actually people devoted to non-violent playstyles, right? It's totally do-able, just very hard at starting levels.

I find it pretty fun.

how is it improved? i don't see much difference. If anything its dissapointingly the same.

Overall though I have never hated the combat, it could be better, more complex and have some finer (more complex) controls.

My biggest beef is the favorites menu and lack of hotkey system on console. The favorites menu and its 'pause & select' just bores me to death. I liked the d-pad selecting because it was more stressful.

For an RPG the combat is good but in melee you only have two buttons to use block and swing. I would like to see the addition of a third button for thrust. All the swinging attacks might look good but there a bit hollywood and I would love to stab an enemy in the guts when they swing a warhammer.

There's melee, magic, and ranged combat. Add in Shouts and dual wielding and I don't see what the problem is. Many options.

I think the combat should be more refined. Having never played the previous games I have nothing to compare, but it still feels "off" to me a little bit.

I agree with this. A greater range of attack options would be welcome. Stabs, swings, chops, each with their own version of a power attack, and each dealing different types of damage and effects to the enemy. The former, obviously would be quickest and results in greater bloodloss. The latter two would be slower, but more likely to stagger an opponent. Chopping could also knock an opponent to the ground.

Also, lethality needs to be increased. It's definitely better than Oblivion, but I still find myself wailing on some things far too long. That makes combat tedious and I've no sense of dealing real damage. Following that, combat needs to be far more about avoiding damage, because each successful strike will be far more serious. Parrying should be included, in addition to actual dodging, and knockback/bash attacks.

Compare to many sword and magic game in FPS combat system, this is by far the best one out there. Yes, there are always improvement, but hey, it is still fun for me.

I thought about those things but there is a danger of going to far down the beat um up road. Just a couple of things like thrust and parry would keep me happy.

I'm not sure how additional combat options makes something a beat 'em up. It adds strategy as you deal with different types of opponents. Artificial limitations are far more gamey, and far more representative of an arcade style beat 'em up. BY giving the layer a full range of attacks and mobility, you offer a far more realistic combat experience. One that's built on natural understanding, rather than memorizing manufactured combo strings.

So you mean doing an atomic buster on everyone I come across in Skyrim is not diplomacy? Well, damn.

While combat has certainly improved over it's forebears after the 30 hour mark onward bash slash slash bash slash slash no matter what enemy you face does get pretty lame.

Personally I would be happy with all the things you have suggested but Bethesda is unlikely to want to upset its legions of fans who would cry about being forced to play a beat um up. I agree It wouldnt be that but I would be willing to bet a lot would cry and say it is just that. The addition of an option to thrust though might be something that they would do.