Why don't dragons shout? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:42 pm

I always get a kick out of learning all these dragon shouts that dragons don't use, too. Oh well, Bethesda needed to add some new combat ability, I guess.

Tis a bit ridiculous isn't it? Makes me laugh out loud also...I guess they were being cool. Deus EX has Eye augmentations, Skyrim has yelling at...Dragons?

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:23 am

If a dragon did ethereal that would be a PITA... but I see what you mean

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:49 am

This greatly annoys me also. I mean, Paarthurnax and Alduin, some of the oldest dragons around...possibly even pioneers of their own language, have a max of 3 shouts they ever use. I mean really? Our upstart Dovakiin is better at the language than those who speak it every day? Come on!

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:10 pm

Breathing fire/ice = shouting. Granted, they don't use Throw Voice, but who would expect them to? What shout are you expecting from them that you don't get, besides maybe Unrelenting Force - which is so simple that the Greybeards give it to you for free?

Spoiler

Animal Allegiance - No. It's a dragon. it eats wolves, it doesn't make friends with them.
Aura Whisper - They know where you are in combat.
Become Ethereal - No. A proud, aggressive (I.E all, if you listen to Paarthurnax) dragons is not going to become invincible so he can fly away safely.
Call Dragon - Nope.
Call of Valor - Not applicable. Woo summoning enemies that would then try to kill you.
Clear Skies - the equivalent of dragon windscreen wipers. no.
Disarm - Not likely.
Dismay - There would be a case for using this on AI. But not on the Dovahkiin. It wouldn't be strong enough to mess with you.
Dragonrend - They can't learn this.
Elemental Fury - so the dragon can swing his dual-wielded axes faster?
Fire Breath - they do.
Frost Breath - they do.
Ice Form - plausible, but difficult to implement in Skyrim combat. if you're frozen, the dragon gets a free hit, basically ensuring your demise by the time you're on your feet.
Kynes Peace - yeah, the dragon will try and calm you down. wouldn't work, but it doesn't have to because it wouldn't happen.
Marked for Death - there's a case for this, but I don't think there's a dragon that suits it other than Alduin.
Slow Time - nope. it makes it easier for you, not the dragon.
Storm Call - yeah, a flying dragon wants to electrify the sky. No.
Throw Voice - ...no.
Unrelenting Force - possible, but as the Greybeards know this shout as well, makes sense for dragons not to use it.
Whirlwind Spirit - because the dragon wants to throw himself forty feet in a single direction.

thanks for the hilarious use of sarcasm. I needed the laugh, seriously.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:04 pm

I don't give a damn about their sounds. It's the lack of the actual SHOUT itself happening. I've never been disarmed by one. I've never had unrelenting force used on me by one.

Hell, the Draugr use more shouts then dragons do.

This is a good point. I've never had a dragon Fus Ro Dah me, except for Alduin at the beginning part of the game. It would be fun to have them use different shouts, rather than just fire or ice. Perhaps Ancient Dragons could use Call Storm and Ice Form in addition to their usual shouts, Elder Dragons could use Unyielding Force and Marked For Death as extras, and Blood Dragons could have access to Disarm in addition to whichever elemental shout they are assigned. That would make things much more interesting (and difficult, if the AI chose the right shouts at the right time).

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:14 am

YEs dragons could certainly use more shouts. Would make fighting them a little more exciting...

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:55 am

Yeah it would make dragon fights much better.
i don't think the shouts dragons use have to be limited to those that the player learns, there could be shouts used exclusively by dragons, like Alduin's meteor storm.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:01 pm

Yeah it would make dragon fights much better.
i don't think the shouts dragons use have to be limited to those that the player learns, there could be shouts used exclusvely by dragons, like Alduin's meteor storm.

Meteor Swarm is the only shout in the game that dragons could actually use outside of specific actions, and even then it would be tricky to implement. Imagine a meteor storm over Whiterun... half the population would get butchered. There are 4 other shouts unavaliable to the player:

Spoiler

SLEN TIID VO - Flesh, Time, Undo. This shout is used by http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Alduin to resurrect long dead dragons from their burial sites.
FIIK LO SAH - Mirror, Deceive, Phantom. This shout is used by http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Greybeards to summon a spectral clone of themselves for http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dovahkiin to practice http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Force on.
VEN MUL RIIK - Wind, Strong, Gale. This shout is used by Alduin to summon a dense fog that doubles as a soul snare.
NAHL DAAL VUS - Living, Return, Nirn. This shout is used by Tsun to return the Dragonborn to Tamriel after the defeat of Alduin in Sovrngarde.

None of them would really work, all too specific in their purpose. So there would have to be entirely new shouts that don't exist in current Skyrim in order for dragons shouting beyond their current capabilities to be viable.

thanks for the hilarious use of sarcasm. I needed the laugh, seriously.

Not entirely sure this is authentic, but I'm glad you enjoyed it if you did.

It wasn't supposed to be humorous, just making a point.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:23 pm

I can just imagine our character walking the wilderess, and then we here "Hey, Troll Bait" and as we look around frantically there is a dragon crouching behind a rock sniggering..

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:59 pm

This is a good point. I've never had a dragon Fus Ro Dah me, except for Alduin at the beginning part of the game. It would be fun to have them use different shouts, rather than just fire or ice. Perhaps Ancient Dragons could use Call Storm and Ice Form in addition to their usual shouts, Elder Dragons could use Unyielding Force and Marked For Death as extras, and Blood Dragons could have access to Disarm in addition to whichever elemental shout they are assigned. That would make things much more interesting (and difficult, if the AI chose the right shouts at the right time).

The most powerful version of storm call is like instant kill for you and your companion in an open field combined with dragon attacks. Ice form... well that's pretty obvious. I do agree with with disarm and marked for death thought.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:24 am

What's funny, is that according to data files....Odahviing, Alduin, and Paarthurnax all have recorded vocal lines for level 3 unrelenting force, among other things yet they never use them.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:00 am

They shout...

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:40 am

There's a mod that does this. I wish it was more modular, but I'm using it for now.

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3829

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:34 am

The dragons are pretty much dragon zombies so I don't think they are as powerful as they used to be. That's why little towns can take them down easily.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:33 pm

I'd love to fight a dragon that could to more than spew fire and ice. Unrelenting Force, Disarm, Ice Form, Storm Call, the likes. I'd also like to hear them taunting me in dragon-tongue at the start of a battle, then fearing for their very soul at the end. I posted a topic about it on the Nexus a while ago but no-one replied.

They're supposed to be intelligent beings, but they seem to have forgotten their own language. Drauger seem to know dragon language better than dragons! Bethesda claimed that their dragons were different because they were so intelligent and used the Voice. Funny, I only see typical fire/ice spewing dragons (with some exceptions).

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:12 pm

The most powerful version of storm call is like instant kill for you and your companion in an open field combined with dragon attacks. Ice form... well that's pretty obvious. I do agree with with disarm and marked for death thought.

I see what you're saying regarding Storm Call being too powerful, as well as Ice Form, but I beg to differ. If those two were restricted to Ancient Dragons, they would provide a great challenge to high level characters, especially since you don't really encounter Ancient Dragons until you get to a level high enough where you can hold your own against one. If the Ancient Dragons were restricted to the first-tier versions of both shouts, that would be challenging without being impossible to defeat. Add in to the fact that dodging Ice Form would likely not be too difficult, and you've got a dragon fight that's a lot more interesting, instead of feeling vaguely like a chore. My only concession to that is that the followers would have to level up more closely to the PC, instead of how the leveling system is now. Storm Call would quickly down a follower the way it is now.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:09 pm

Crippling overspecialization.

Kinda like how Voldemort seems to be a one-trick pony in wizard duels with Avada Kevedra.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:56 am

If their fire/frost breath is a shout then why can't I learn it? All I have is a tiny cloud of fire that does almost no damage.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:45 pm

It's the same shout. They just have slightly bigger lungs. :tongue:

Same with that disarm thing. We use it to disarm because of the reduced effect. Dragons use it if they want to force their way with another of the weaker six :tongue:

Now, would it be natural for a dragon to use that kind of language towards a human weakling? :biggrin:

And fus-ro-dah? That's just dragons slightly arguing over something. He's trying to kill you, not discuss with you. Oh well...

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:00 am

The magic-using AI in general seems to be a little lacking. It prettymuch spams one attack spell over and over (or a staff if it has one).

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:18 am

This would go a long way to improving dragon fights by giving them different shouts... I detest how the only difference between dragons "other than the name" is that one breathes fire and one breathes ice... wow so very diverse.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:20 am

They use diferent shouts, like Fus Ro Dah or Yol. Check UESPwiki for a complete list.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:05 am

They do, if you close enough you can hear them

If you put subtitles on, they can some times pop up in them

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:18 am

I don't give a damn about their sounds. It's the lack of the actual SHOUT itself happening. I've never been disarmed by one. I've never had unrelenting force used on me by one.

Hell, the Draugr use more shouts then dragons do.

Exactly! Though, A Draur Overlord shouting me off a cliff in the Main Quest has left a baaaaad memory...

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:41 pm

Crippling overspecialization.

Kinda like how Voldemort seems to be a one-trick pony in wizard duels with Avada Kevedra.

That is one way to describe it.

Come on, its the killing curse from the most powerful dark wizard of all time.

I do seriously wish they had more shouts they are supposed to and I am guessing this is another thing that has gotten axed in this game.