you dont even have to set foot in the college for the mainquest

you can just head over to septimus right away and he'll give you the stuff you need to enter blackreach

but im sure plenty of you no brainers never thought of that

I don't mind not being able to get every word of every shout. I do find it annoying when a non-College or non-TG quest requires me to join the College or TG to complete it. Really all they had to do was include an option to refuse quests or drop them from our journal (and when that was done make quest items like Unusual Gems lose their essential status).

you don't have to join. Bethesda are perfect in this way as it is down to choice and people have all options.

With my main character who is a Nord and is primarily a warrior but also supports magic with regards to restoration, conjuration etc (not destruction - he uses one handed weapons for up close and bow for distance). He is head of The Companions and the Mages Guild.

He is the hero of Skyrim and doesn't join the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild as this would go against his personality. So what I do is have a second (& third) character design solely for the evil guilds.
Its good this way as I also get to see the "wipe out the DB quest" with my main character.

You could of course look at being a member of the College as an "honorary" title, I mean who wouldn't want The Dragonborn to be a member of their guild. The Jarl of Whiterun makes a point of saying that he's honored to have the Dragonborn as a Thane of Whiterun.

Heck how many politician's are "honorary" ( incert title ) of college? Or a person who's done something really great being "honorary" mayor of a town?

The TG is easy to get around IF you talk to ppl... IF you go strait to the Inn during the day,talk to the Female Argonian ( I have CRS this morning with names ) You can then go strait to the Ratway.

You can't do every quest on one character and for RP reason's why would you want to?

I was trying to figure out if you could get all the "gem's" just from doing the TG and I know I'd have to at least wipe out the DB. ( but that's another topic )

I stumbled upon Septimus's cave by accident with one character. Knowing that now I could do like you said, but before that doesn't the journal entries pretty much lead you to the college? Same for the Thieve's Guild? iirc, the journal for the MQ tells you to see Brynolff or whatever his name is and he doesn't give a dialogue option of just paying for the info you are looking for.

If you don't know some of this info beforehand it is difficult to work around it.

And I hate that he just comes up to you and goes on about "You didn't work an honest day in your life" crap without a straight out "get lost" dialogue option from the start. All of the other dialogue options are pretty lame.

Also, you start the game with basic spells already soooooo by your logic you were never a warrior to begin with.

Despite how this post evolved I am slightly bothered that every character I create will always have default starting out spells. Granted, I don't use them if my I determine my character isn't a mage but it would seem more rewarding to either chose something at character creation to be able to use magic or do something early in game to access it.

This type of accessibility seeps into other areas of Skyrim's design. One character can do it all. Become leader of the companions guild, DB, Theives Guild, and Mages Guild. This can be done by intentionally staying at level one and not developing any magic schools or warrior trees. You will become leader of those more experienced, invested, and powerful than you. It doesn't make sense. It's like "Hey there is this great rich world of Skyrim but the gamer here is a kid dieing of cancer and his last wish was to play Skyrim so everyone please just humor him and let him become the leader of everything."

Soooo--we shouldn't have to start the game with spells unless you choose to.

Your complaint only makes sense if you decide that the NPCs do not have any right to their own opinions. They are trying to protect their guild's interests, and don't see a lot of reason to help some random stranger who openly despises them. The mages guild in particular doesn't compel you do to anything beyond demonstrate either magic or a shout to get in the door, and to implicitly fill out an enrollment form. You are then free to get what you came for and walk away, never speaking to a single member ever again.

Even with the thieves guild, you don't have to commit a single theft to get the informatio. And with them it is a lot easier to find a workaround if you're willing to do some due diligence. Finding the back door of the mages guild is very hard, but for the TG all you have to do is talk to lots of townspeople and do some exploration, which should be a staple of any RPG player's toolkit.

WTF?!

I had a similar response.

Not really, but in a way. And it wasn't necessary.


Oh! You mean kind of like in the tutorial in the very first room you pick up weapons and armor? Or in the cell of the torture room you can get a Sparks Spelltome? It would have been very easy, once your bonds had been cut that when you first get your gear there were Flames and Healing tomes and then you could decide what to do with them. EDIT: and as a bonus you get a quick tutorial on how to learn spells from a tome.

LOLZORZ I'm sure you're the type of guy that read all game guides, walkthroughs, hints, spoilers, and plan your game path for a week before firing up the launcher

because I'm sure nobody would ever try to play on their own without some sort of guide, thereby not knowing about any kind of backdoor or who the Oblivion is this "Septimus" guy

He makes total sense. I can`t believe you guys don`t understand his point.


Anyway, i`ve discovered I`m not forced to be a mage to continue the main quest. I`ve already made my apologies for it, because I`m not afraid of doing that if I see I`m wrong.

Unlike many here.

It would be nice if we just had the choice of being a pure warrior, without any starting spells at all, but that`s the way they do it- I just don`t use them or Mod it out. the point of the MQ is you have to go to the Mage College to continue the MQ and it takes you straight to being a mage student without any indication you can actually just break away and go off. None of the Mages seem to get that you got in because you are Dragon born, not mage.

But i`m tired of watching many of you simply not understand.

Still can't delete spells can we?

I found Septimus on my current character(my first) long before I even found the College of Whiterun. Just some random exploration is all it takes.

As i recall, you have to cast healing hands once, and ward once. If you don't have ward, they train it to you free. Whoop-de-do. After that, you never have to cast another spell, ever. New level of complaining, that...

That's just to complete storyline, which always ends the same way regardless of how you do it. If you want to be a master wizard and gain access to the colleges ritual spells - you gotta cast spells.

The OP is talking about how the Main Quest guides you to join the Mages' Guild (and the Thiefs' Guild) in order to continue.

I popped in to the College once as part of a quest. After that the guards would occasionally remark "you're that one from the college".

It would appear that setting foot in that place means you're a member.

I sympathize with this issue. There's a workaround, namely, just finding the outpost on your own... but that can prove difficult for those less inclined to explore.

Anyway, what really svcks, is they totally get a solution perfect for a previous quest like. For the Thieves guild, you have to meet someone that is normally in the college, but he has the courtesy to meet you in the inn instead. Perfect!

Yes, I know that. But of course you don't have to cast more spells or become a master wizard, to accomplish what the OP was wingeing about.

*ahem* I think the point is well understood (if not agreed with by everyone; why should it?). Just that the way it's said is... untasteful, to say the least. Uncalled for. There's no need to flame like that, me thinks.


Me too! I never joined the CoW on my first MQ playthrough. Somehow, I never even imagined it would have to be done. Guess I was just lucky fiding way around it right from the start.

Me too, actually! I had a very focused Nord warrior build: only did the Companions questline and the MQ. I was exploring the Sea of Ghosts and stumbled into the cave. Thrilled I didn't have to visit the College!

Still, the OP has a point, if overexaggerated. There are other questlines - notably the Civil War ones - that seem to push the character into different directions, requiring straight-up fighting as well as sneaking around. It's like the devs wanted to have each quest appeal to each kind of character, but in the end it means some RPers will be disappointed.

No you aren't. I killed Alduin without joining the Companion, the Thieves Guild (and Nightingales) or the Dark Brotherhood. I didn't join the Stormcloaks or the Empire. The main quest doesn't force you to join the College.