The Blades in Cyrodiil were awesome. They were loyal to their task and would fight to the death to protect it. The two pathetic blades that are left are so caught up in their hatred of the dragons that they will completely abandon the Dragonborn who they are sworn to protect if the Dragonborn doesn't agree with them.

If it is of any use to you, I felt [censored] awesome when I killed Paarthurnax. It was [censored] glorious. One dragon less, the Greybeards went out of business and Delphine and Esbern now send Blades again. 110% WIN.

The way I experienced it The Greybeards are not extrovertly pacifist or anything else. They seem to have more of a Buddhist philosophy in my playing of the game and prefer their disassociation from the everyday world, and have a bit of a 'what will be, will be' attitude. To me, they didn't seem at all like they wanted to impose their agenda on the player.

I think the Greybeards are "overtly pacifist" actually. Everything you hear from them (if you go through all the dialogue options) leads to that bottom line. That doesn't mean I think that's bad.... just that it's pretty evident. I'm not pacifistic personally, so that particular playstyle wouldn't EVER fly with me.

It was a while ago, so maybe I'm wrong, but the vibe I got was that they weren't openly opposed to me killing stuff. Most memorable was they didn't ostracize me for putting an end to Alduin (or anyone else, I guess). I remember their general attitude as being more resigned to things just turning out however they would. They didn't seem like the type of people to try and actively manipulate events to achieve any desired outcome, to me. I will need to upload a save to check Arngeir's dialogue when you choose The Way of the Voice option (after he explains what their philosphy is) - seriously, did not many people choose this or something?

The Blades had their history retconned to fit in with the new dragonlore, and then the whole choosing between the Blades and Greybeards thing felt very poorly implemented. That's probably what people don't like about them.

I didn't, since it wouldn't be anything I'd be interested in. And of course, as far as the dialogue goes, they don't "push" you - I just had the feeling of the underlying "it doesn't matter what violence you choose, the end of the kalpa is more important". And of course, my reaction to all that sort of stuff is probably simply due to my IRL reactions to stuff like that....

Not to mention that I find the devs adding that particular "choice" (which is basically a non-choice of course) a waste of time which would have been better used to implement the REAL peaceful end to getting the Grey-Mane out of Thalmor hands.

Aye, I was miffed by how such an important offer (to basically never shout again) was nullified and brushed aside. The game just sets you back on the path of the dragon killing Dovahkiin. Disappointing, but it did leave a lasting impression on me of The Greybeards not wanting me to join them or act on their behalf.

Manipulation is the forte of every game, and every game developer. That's not a "good" answer, but it's the only one I have - and I've seen it in action in every game I've played since 1985.

That's the difference as far as the Greybeards and Blades. With the Greybeards, you never have to promise to keep Paarthurnax alive and after that he's tagged as essential or something. You're never bound to High Hrothgar to kneel in front of statues, in fact, they even say (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You've acquired some deadly weapons along your path, you can choose to be evil and feared, loved and kept in fond memory, or fade into obscurity". What you do from then on is up to you.

To "be a Blade" you MUST kill Paarthurnax to "uphold the Blade oath" (the same one that makes Odahviing exempt from death?) and be apart of their weird little ancient cult.

Back to PnP games! Where players get to manipulate the DM.


This is the kind of imbalance I saw as well. Seems like The Blades (Delphine, really) are deliberately written to be an undesirable choice and probably rejected. But then I was surprised by how many people got the Oblivion Walker achievement, considering that you have to become a cannibal to get it, so I am often wrong.

eh i used to bash the baldes and constantly gripe about why aint thye wiping my ass and such....until i did soem background and paid attention in the dialogue and to the books. First off the oath they swore was to tiber septim's bloodline beig as they were all dragonborns...well that ended at the end of oblivion, pretty much that oath to serve and protect was pretty much faile don thier end kinda sorta..i guess thye made up at the end but anyways, if u pay attention to delphies dialogue shes says that the blades for 200 years had no direction no purpose, and then the dragons coem along AND the dragonborn shows up and they have found their NEW purpose. They want to serve and protect the dragonborn that is "killing" or "dominating" the dragons like tiber septim of old did. Dragons have a need to dominate and even Paar slips at the end when everythigns said and doen and talks about going out and ruling "dominating" the other dragons with the way of the voice. Odahviing sees u as the "alduin" the superior the new master to him so hes at ur bech and call, while Tiber Septim in the past allowed certain dragons to live BECAUSE they swore into his service under Tiber septim dominace, and seeing how odahviing has pretty much the same its kosher atm with the blades. Paar on the other hand is an unknown variable and plus if hes dead hes a symbol to the living blades that can be used against the other dragons. Paar is under no ones dominance excepts his own and after Alduin is done with, Paar wants to dominate the other dragosn with the way of the voice "sounds likes he starting to slipand backslide" and plus once Alduin is takign care of, Paar is the most powerful dragon alive then.

So it does all make sence when u look at the big picture, have i killed Paar yet? No ihavent, hes a really cool charector and i gonna miss hi once i get the gumpshon up to on my current RP playthru. Is the ultimatum poorly written...in a way yes and no. It is seeing how the blades do not give u the full explantion and no seeing how u can find all the tidbits by playing the game and listening to dialogue and reading books. Bethesda seems to be pretty good at giving us the story only when we look EVERYWHERE for our information lol.

Now am i saying that u should kill paar? No its ur game and u play how u like. Im just giving information out there to people who need a reason or clarity to perform an action they're looking for a reaosn to do.

Well, actually 1985 was the first CRPG I'd ever played. PnP games were back in the mid-70s.... I gm'd games for my daughter and her friends.

It's because the Blades via Delphine not only treat the PC poorly, but then ask you to kill one of the few characters that is actually unique and nice to you... for the continued, uh, pleasure of Delphine's company. And a bit racest on the Blades part, to mark every being of a race as only worthy of dying, which is going to rub most people the wrong way unless also roleplaying as a character that hates an entire race. The Blades basically ask you to do something a Good Guy wouldn't do.

wait are u saying Balgruff is an evil person becausehe wanted u to kill a dragon? lol i kid BUT seeing how many times i have gotten bounties and requests to go kill dragons that are pretty much sittign at their word walls doing nothing.....i dotn really thik the general population will have any problem or anythign against the dragonborn if he did off Paar. Im thinkign the general population are gonna see one dragon like any other. Also remember nice dosent mean good, most of the time when people are betrayed or assassinated its from thier "nicest" friends, because most people let down thier guard when soemones being nice to them quite often.

Just playing devil's advocate here lol

I hope PnP is forever. There are some really good paper/book based games out now.



Those dragons aren't doing nothing... they're attacking me. Anything that attacks me first is fair game... There's another reason to hate 'The Baldes' - they want you to kill in cold blood. Even if Paarthunax was a 'dumb' fox instead of a very interesting and unique character I still wouldn't kill him.

I'm sure it's alive and well and will be for a very long time yet!

As far as I know those bounties on killing specific dragons usually have to deal with the dragon killing an npc or something along those lines first. Even if that is not the case and a dragon really has been just sitting on a word wall and doing nothing, it attacks you as you approach, so you then have the right to defend yourself. Was the dragon's choice to attack instead of talking.

And I meant real niceness, not just pretending such. >.>

I like approaching word walls quietly and using Unrelenting Force on the perched dragons. "Wake up!"

So in that respect, I'm the one starting the fight.

Then Korr, ur an evil dragon assassin worthy of joining Delphine's Blades. ;p

I'm not a dragon assassin per se. I practically am a dragon. I see it as me doing the same thing dragons do to each other. They value domination and their own peculiar little heirarchy. That is MY word wall, as far as I'm concerned. They shouldn't be sitting on it.

Actually, that's a truism if you take to heart the "when dragons shout they are having a complex battle of words...." or whatever the quote is (sorry, maybe need more wine?)

I hate them because i've been railroaded into working for them in one way or another for three games in a row

While I don't agree with them in game (I haven't killed him once yet) I like the Blades for forcing the player into an uncomfortable situation. I think they were well done but they could have been developed further as could have the rest of the game's factions.

Actually, Parthy killed alot of people back when he was bros with Alduin.