That's a proof by induction and thus isn't valid. You can't assume all children know it. It's basically the same thing as saying all swans are white as all swans you've seen up to this point have been white.

No, because I wouldn't commit a murder in the first place. This kid knew what death was, knew how to use a gun, and he used it for bad doings. He deserves the consequences. And yeah dude, programming a lot harder than the concept as death. Death is not hard at all, even animals know what death is.

I'm not discussing whether he knew or didn't - I don't know if he's guilty, much less what was in his head if he is - whether he should or shouldn't be held accountable. You said "so just because i don't understand death means i can kill someone?" and I was merely answering to that. If - IF - you don't understand the consequences of your actions, then no, you can't be held accountable. That's why children and mental patients aren't tried as sane advlts.

Don't go "BS" when you don't read my post, kthx.

Death is easy to understand ? Seriously ? Give me a break. Kids driving their bikes madly in front of cars, advlts speeding or drinking behind the wheel - you think all of those realise they can die or they can kill people ? Sure, everybody knows that you live, you die. Intellectually. But kids, and some advlts, definitely don't feel what it means.

Welcome.

Either way, this child should be locked up until it is proven that he is no longer a threat to society.

Since theres a lot of scientific debate about whether animals even have a concept of self its debateable that they know what death is

I don't know. I grew up around guns and was shooting almost by the time I could walk. Got my hunting license when I turned 12. I was brought up with a health respect and had good teachers. I think there is more to it than blaming it on the gun. There is something wrong with you if you think to kill someone. If the gun wasn't available, he would have used something else guaranteed. Another sad chapter in this world.

Personally, I'm not really sure what to do with this kid, but locking him up isn't the answer, or at least not a complete one.

Our media runs on negative unleaded.

I hate lawyers as much as anyone, but this thread makes me appreciate them and systems of law more than ever. The mob mentality and ironic lack of comprehension that is rampant here makes me realize a bloated, sometimes inefficient court system is a small blight compared to the lynch mob.

I so know what you mean.

Appreciate the justice system, get an internet connection !

http://www.livescience.com/animals/081027-elephants-roads.html. Possibly valid.

Yep, you forgot about throwing away the key.

Seriously, he MIGHT not fully understand what he did. I don't believe that, but it's possible. And you know what? I DON'T CARE. He killed someone, end of story.

Look, I'm just going to stop responding to you now after this, because if you really believe that, we're never going to agree. Death is simple in a biological sense, but not at all emotionally or mentally simple to deal with or even understand. If you've ever lost someone you'll understand what a traumatic experience it is, or if you've ever been faced with your own mortality, because speaking from experience when you're told that you might die, any concept of it being simple goes out the window, and as I said I am an advlt, not a child. We are not the same as a fox, or a badger or a deer. We're human and we've evolved beyond that.

Agreed. It astounds me how many forumites are almost willing to apply Codex Hammurabi here for a minor.

Yeah. My post was a bit lost since I edited, but I said something to that effect. There's knowing about death - you live you die - and understanding it. Two different things altogether.

And I'm also an advlt. Isn't that fun how we agree ?

My father.

Ever heard of Co Co the gorilla?

Two advlts agreeing is generally a rare sight, especially if you're into politics.

As a vegetarian and animal rights supporter (to a limited extent, I wouldn't actually allow them to vote ) I'm happy to see that
I was just playing Devil's Advocate with the thick animals thing, personally I think they are a lot more intelligent than generally credited

And to all those people saying much as I hate lawyers thank god for them in this case you realise it was mostly lawyers who drafted your Constitution. Lawyers are a neccesary consequence of legal systems and I hope we'd all agree we are much better for having them

I never expected people to be calling for the blood of a child.
Before he was proven guilty even.
I guess you learn something new everyday.

Yes I have, but I accepted that she was dead and never coming back, so i got over it quickly.


On many occasions. However, I do not fear death as it is something we must all face.

My point being is that death comes to everyone, yes, but this kid shouldn't be allowed to walk free. Death in itself is not all that bad, murder on the other hand is very very very wrong. This kid should not be allowed to get away with it. A crime is a crime. (I do not believe in the death penalty though, for anyone. Lock up and reform, I say.)

The concept of right and wrong is instilled when you are young. To say that a 12 year old child doesn't know that killing is wrong is a loud and emphatic round of ignorance.

And even if by some chance he doesn't know, time for him to learn the hard way.

we all speak as though he had been on hypothetical basis, i think

Wait a minute, if he doesn't know isn't that parents or societies fault
So punish the parent or get society to do better, don't punish the child

Not me. I am dead serious, he should be locked up. Not only did he kill a person (which is horrible), he killed an unborn child w/o legal consent. That's just plain evil.


If the kid doesn't get punished for this, it is basically saying that murder is alright.