[HARDHEAD]

No it isn't, since the waitress in this anology is Bethesda (the one who delivers to customers, but doens't make) and the cook is id Software.

Its my anology and I can make it about whoever I want. Get your own anology.

But they should've bloody test the batteries, before release because half the customers use them.

Do you know for a fact they didn't test them or are you just making wild accusations? Should we all put on tin foil hats and start comparing conspiracy theories?

No guys, no-no-no-no-no. You may come up with whatever flimsy justification you like, but it'll be flimsy anyway, because the bloody game is out for three months already and all we've seen is one little patch that ADDS GRAPHIC OPTIONS. There may be problems during the game's launch days, but if the problems aren't solved three months later, the devs are just being dikes.

The patch they put out is merely for the purpose of making it easier for people to compensate for the bad drivers. Until AMD gets the drivers right its counter productive to patch the game because it will only add to the confusion about what the problems are. Again, this just sounds like a wild conspiracy theory were you take a few cherry picked facts completely out of context and inflate them into some sort of proof about how lazy, greedy, and incompetent the whole world is.

[Madison Poo]

Do you know for a fact they didn't test them or are you just making wild accusations? Should we all put on tin foil hats and start comparing conspiracy theories?

Isn't the fact that the game is a mess from a technical standpoint a dead giveaway?

The patch they put out is merely for the purpose of making it easier for people to compensate for the bad drivers. Until AMD gets the drivers right its counter productive to patch the game because it will only add to the confusion about what the problems are. Again, this just sounds like a wild conspiracy theory were you take a few cherry picked facts completely out of context and inflate them into some sort of proof about how lazy, greedy, and incompetent the whole world is.

Again, isn't the fact that the game is a mess a dead giveaway? And then again, aren't devs supposed to develop games for current systems, not video card manufacturers supposed to develop specific drivers for games? If the game doesn't work with drivers that were current on the release day, it's safe to say that devs have screwed up. And if the game doesn't work three months later, the promised mod tools and texture patch aren't out and promised texture pack is cancelled, it's safe to say that devs don't give two craps about their customers.

[Trent Theriot]

Just my personal experience with the Sapphire ATI HD 4650 i've bought this year:

The only driver i was able to install on my Win XP 64 pro was the one that was shipped with it and that was more than a year old.
Every other driver released afterwards by ATI or Sapphire failed installation or turned graphics mode to 8 bit color depth without any acceleration although they where explicitely marked as drivers for my OS.
I'm not the only one that experienced this problem. The web is full of it. So i wrote them an error report through their error report system on their website and it turned out that the install problem showed up if you have the Net Framework 3.5 installed. Any version of the Net framework before or afterwards also installed doesn't make a difference.
Shortly afterwards, they released a driver package that worked.
On the one hand it is fine that their error report system works, on the other hand it leaves me in absolute disbelief that they haven't noticed this problem over a period of more than 1-2 years ! Looks like Ati is releasing driver packages without checking compatibility with the systems they are programmed for.

This brings me to the driver problem Ati has with OpenGL:
Most driver versions for my card already have problems with older OpenGL titles by ID running on the Doom3 engine (again: search the web) resulting in crashes during gameplay.
Doom3 was released in 2004.
Hard to believe they didn't correct or even notice these problems up to this day but when they don't even notice that their drivers can't be installed on some OSs...

Looks like this is a problem with quality assurance and testing.
Judging by my personal experience with Ati, i'm 100% sure that Carmack's position on Rage is right.

[Horror- Puppe]

"Angry & Useless Thread," these are all angry and useless posts.

@ksb1082, bobfish, Rage works and it works fine. Game has fewer bugs than a bar of soap in a pool of acid.
The drivers were the problem. The game has not been put through severe modification of any sort, you run the same game that released.

What has been changed? The drivers. Bingo.

The product shipped just fine, rather the batteries were crap. IdSoftware don't make those batteries.

It is obvious that the drivers were the issue with AMD's cards. This may be little more than Monday morning quarterbacking but what I have said is that it is an issue that Id should have anticipated. Why do I say this? Because AMD or ATI has never consistently supported OpenGL. So at some level there should have been an expectation that there would need to be a work around for all of their customers who don't have Nvidia cards. Let alone the fact that they should have been prepared to support them. It appears in both cases that they did not. Maybe they thought they had one in place, I don't know. But it sure as snap doesn't look like they spent much time or effort supporting their customers after the game launched.

My other issue is that now apparently we are waiting on AMD to offer a general stable driver. I am arguing that it is not coming soon or at all. That is what my purpose was for bringing up Skyrim. It makes sense for them to commit resources to (Skyrim) to ensure that the game works optimally. The question is why? Money, Rage had poor sales on PC. It is not in AMD's financial interest to spend time working to try to stabilize a development platform they have traditionally not supported. So it begs the question; what is Id waiting for? At this point it is much more pragmatic for them to release the content/patches and provide the support themselves.There are many other companies who take this approach and have earned good will and support from their customers. Again, examples are companies like Blizzard. If you want another one consider Rocksteady who worked on Batman: AA. The entire game was build on Nvidia's proprietary Physx engine, meaning that AMD cards essentially could not play it. What did they do? They didn't sit around and blame AMD; they added a work around so that the game would work on AMD cards. And it does, very well.

So that leaves us at my issues with Id's response. Excuses. Everyone here is content to throw AMD under the bus. Statements are made, usually swimming in hyperboly, being some horrible deficient company. Even though there is nothing more than anecdotal evidence to back it up. Nvidia has a bigger market share, yes this is true; but, they have also faced recent legal issues because of their business practices. This is the first game that I have had a problem with my AMD card period. I imagine a lot of other AMD users can claim the same.

[Justin Hankins]

Isn't the fact that the game is a mess from a technical standpoint a dead giveaway?
Again, isn't the fact that the game is a mess a dead giveaway? And then again, aren't devs supposed to develop games for current systems, not video card manufacturers supposed to develop specific drivers for games? If the game doesn't work with drivers that were current on the release day, it's safe to say that devs have screwed up. And if the game doesn't work three months later, the promised mod tools and texture patch aren't out and promised texture pack is cancelled, it's safe to say that devs don't give two craps about their customers.

As I and others have already stated here, the game is rock solid and bug free. Its not a mess in any way, shape, or form. Its your computer that's a mess if it can't play the game.

[..xX Vin Xx..]

stuff...

See I didn't say it's not id's fault, I simply stated the game works just fine, and it does. It is specific to having certain "batteries", and if you don't have them that's too bad, wait untill the battery men deliver them to you.
Rage works.

But yes, id did slip up on their part too. Thing is, who cares? The game is fully playable now and as of right now any problem is no one's fault but AMD's and AMD's alone. Id can't do anything but sit and wait for them to hurry up and release the final drivers. Only after that can the damn DLC and detail textures be released.

Spoiler

Not to be too light on id, they should've checked that everything was done right every step of the way untill the end, including a request to see the drivers launching with the game. At least it would've made sense to do so.

Anyway no one's really right here, both sides have valid truths

[Del Arte]

As I and others have already stated here, the game is rock solid and bug free. Its not a mess in any way, shape, or form. Its your computer that's a mess if it can't play the game.

Yes, the game is a mess. It's PC gaming: here the game should work flawlessly on any machine that fits system requirements. If it doesn't, it's the game's fault.

[Meghan Terry]

Yes, the game is a mess. It's PC gaming: here the game should work flawlessly on any machine that fits system requirements. If it doesn't, it's the game's fault.

The PCs don't meet the system requirements because one of the system requirements is that they have functional drivers!

[brenden casey]

The PCs don't meet the system requirements because one of the system requirements is that they have functional drivers!

Then again, aren't game developers supposed to develop games for drivers that are current at the time of release date?

And you know what? I'm raging not because the game works badly on my PC (aside from texture pop-up it does work). I'm raging because I don't like seeing fellow PC gamers treated like second-rate people. Even if the drivers are really bad, id should've made a hotfix that decreases game's graphics, but makes it functional until the good drivers are available. Did they do that? Not mentioning all the stuff they promised and never released.

[SiLa]

Then again, aren't game developers supposed to develop games for drivers that are current at the time of release date?

Then games would only have a 1 month development cycle

[Shaylee Shaw]

Then again, aren't game developers supposed to develop games for drivers that are current at the time of release date?

And you know what? I'm raging not because the game works badly on my PC (aside from texture pop-up it does work). I'm raging because I don't like seeing fellow PC gamers treated like second-rate people. Even if the drivers are really bad, id should've made a hotfix that decreases game's graphics, but makes it functional until the good drivers are available. Did they do that? Not mentioning all the stuff they promised and never released.

Gamers are not treated like second class citizens. If you want more stable drivers all you have to do is use Linux on your computer or buy an Apple. For that matter buy a console. They'll play games too, just not necessarily the latest and greatest and many games are never ported to those systems. Dealing with faulty drivers and buggy windows operating systems is just part of the price of progress and insisting on instant gratification. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

As for developing games for the latest drivers you've got it backwards. The idea is the drivers have to be developed to operate with any program that runs on windows whatsoever. This isn't a console where the only thing running is the game and one machine is exactly the same as another. The operating system and all those different background applications and components make it extremely difficult to create decent drivers that work on even most machines. They all fight for the available resources and its only been in recent years that I've stopped cussing Microsoft every day for the BSOD.

Just a suggestion, but you appear to know almost nothing about computers and perhaps it would be a good idea to learn something about what you are spending so much time criticizing.

[ANaIs GRelot]

If you want more stable drivers all you have to do is use Linux on your computer or buy an Apple.

What makes you think that Linux or Mac OS have 100% stable drivers?

[Marion Geneste]

Gamers are not treated like second class citizens. If you want more stable drivers all you have to do is use Linux on your computer or buy an Apple. For that matter buy a console. They'll play games too, just not necessarily the latest and greatest and many games are never ported to those systems. Dealing with faulty drivers and buggy windows operating systems is just part of the price of progress and insisting on instant gratification. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

As for developing games for the latest drivers you've got it backwards. The idea is the drivers have to be developed to operate with any program that runs on windows whatsoever. This isn't a console where the only thing running is the game and one machine is exactly the same as another. The operating system and all those different background applications and components make it extremely difficult to create decent drivers that work on even most machines. They all fight for the available resources and its only been in recent years that I've stopped cussing Microsoft every day for the BSOD.

Just a suggestion, but you appear to know almost nothing about computers and perhaps it would be a good idea to learn something about what you are spending so much time criticizing.

No, dealing with faulty drivers and buggy windows operating system is the price we play for being able to mod and for having better graphics. But if we get neither (despite both being promised prior to game's release), I don't agree to pay that price. And the whole "buy yourself a console" - I don't want to. I'm a PC gamer and am one for seven years already.
And about PC gamers being treated like second-rate people - well, Carmack said it himself, PC version wasn't "the priority". And then again, sorry, but every developer that develops games for PC has to deal with PC being such a clusterf*ck of a platform with hundreds of combinations of hardware. But they manage to make their games work. Why id couldn't? Why do people get the impression that PC version wasn't playtested at all? I had less problems with pirated S.T.A.L.K.E.R. beta five years ago than ATI users have with their legit copies of RAGE. Either id should've put more time and effort in PC version, or shouldn't have made one at all. You said yourself, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".

So yeah, stop it. Just stop. The game obviously has a lot of problems in technical department. But they don't anger me. What angers me is that id isn't hurrying to fix them - they'd rather made demos (of console versions only, which says a lot). They effed up and aren't doing anything about it.

[Tyler F]

@Richard Teph, id can't do anything about it. It's nice if you know a history of games working, but you do show not to know about these things.
Simple: id doesn't make the drivers. They aren't doing anything because they can't. They can only wait for AMD to hurry the [censored] up.
Again, not that id didn't do wrong. They messed up. But all the arguments about id not caring are invalid, and no, id can't fix it.

Their only problem was not realizing in time that the game shipped with half-as$ed drivers. AMD, on the other hand, made those drivers.

If the only thing that angers you is that id isn't doing anything then chillax and have a soda, it's AMD who needs to hurry.

[City Swagga]

No, dealing with faulty drivers and buggy windows operating system is the price we play for being able to mod and for having better graphics. But if we get neither (despite both being promised prior to game's release), I don't agree to pay that price.

The entire industry is geared towards rushing programs out the door and fixing problems after they're released. With Rage Id went overboard to make sure at least the game itself was rock solid and bug free before releasing it. However, the first driver AMD released wasn't even the one they had intended to release. It was like somebody was drunk on the job or had no clue what they were doing. Now AMD is busy working on drivers for their new 7xxx series southern islands video cards and Carmack is complaining on twitter they aren't making enough memory available for Rage. Id just can't be held responsible for AMD being grossly incompetent and more interested in how much money they can make selling their new video cards then providing customer service.

I don't say this lightly either. I've never owned an nvidia card in my life and have always consider the few unique features they have to offer to not be worth the extra expense. However, if they continue to prove they can provide better customer support then AMD it will be money well spent.

[Nicholas C]

By the way, the "rock-solid bug-free" part isn't true either - I stopped my first playthrough when the game stopped rewarding me for winning races (no, I don't mean winning races I already won, I know that the game doesn't reward you for winning them again, I mean races I participated in for the first time).
And even if it's entirely AMD's fault (I just can't believe that manufacturer of like one half of video cards in existence is so careless), id still made some false promises to PC gamers. Super-duper textures and mod tools were promised. Then BOOM - game comes out, Carmack suddenly says that "PC version was not the priority" (ie "Be glad you got the game at all"), texture pack is cancelled, mod tools aren't out. Not pretty. At all. Especially with all the pre-release interviews making false impression that the game was created with PC in mind.

[Ron]

By the way, the "rock-solid bug-free" part isn't true either - I stopped my first playthrough when the game stopped rewarding me for winning races (no, I don't mean winning races I already won, I know that the game doesn't reward you for winning them again, I mean races I participated in for the first time).

That's a minor bug and you know it. By rock solid and bug free I mean when the drivers work the game runs without any serious problems whatsoever. No stuttering, no graphics glitches, no crashes, no nothing that might seriously prevent anyone from enjoying the game for any length of time. From the way you say it I assume you simply exited and restarted and the problem was solved for good. Minor bugs can be fixed easily enough with a patch, but we can't even download the patch until they work out the drivers.

[Kayleigh Mcneil]

I hope there will be a patch at all. The fact that the game is already three months old makes me doubt it. So does the fact that there is no PC demo.

[Bek Rideout]

I hope there will be a patch at all. The fact that the game is already three months old makes me doubt it. So does the fact that there is no PC demo.

https://twitter.com/#!/RAGEgame

Check it out for yourself. They're saying an update for to 12.1a is coming and the patch along with it. This appears to confirm the rumor that came out a few days ago that they expect to release the patch by the end of the month.

As for a PC demo, they'd have to be masochists or sadists to release a PC demo with all the driver problems they've had. The worst appear to be worked out now, but with only a few weeks to go before the patch is released and the PC version already selling for twenty bucks I just don't see rushing to put out a demo as a high priority that will change their fortunes.

[yermom]

Well , Here to post my opnion .. I am on an ATI card and i still have not played the game due to Glares/Flares or w.e they called problems.. Anywayz , It's technically both id and ATI's Fault .. Point is , I know its the drivers Fault that make RAGE run so bad , But Did id test the game with future ATI drivers? No .. They tested it with the same bad drivers that we used .. And they must have noticed at least how badly the game ran ( And before someone says its only a small number of PCs , When the game released.. First day, It did not work for most people on ATI or Nvidia.. the drivers released on day one helped some and others not and so on till now).. So the point is.. Since when they noticed how bad the game ran on some PCs , They should have either delayed the PC till ACTUAL WORKNG drivers come out.. Or at least issue out a public warning that the game does not work on all PCs due to faulty drivers Then release a demo and advice all customers to try the demo first to see if the game ran well... That would have been the right thing to do.. But no, They released it like nothings is wrong and then just blamed ATI for drivers...

although still unplayable due to a horrible glare.

Can you tell me how you fixed that? Cause i am having the exact same problem :

http://i54.tinypic.com/29qcim1.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/25ovrer.jpg

[Lillian Cawfield]

Who is wuliheron?!?

99% of his post come out swinging at OP's and telling people their PC's are ish. You're post are the same on Steam Forums. Trashing people.

This leads me to believe you are a paid employee of Zenimax/Bethesda. Public Affairs? Social Media Manager? Damage Controller? Pissed Dev? Someone on Gstaffs Team? Or Carmack himself! LoL

Rage is a great game, it just should of been delayed. They would of made more money and had less of these type of post.

Even with all the Skyrims bugs, I still purchased 3 copies of it because of the communication between Beth/Obsidian team to the consumers. They seem to listen to the community and bring updates they want.

ID/Beth team failed because they continue to blame Amd and Nvidia for "their" game. Now 3 months later a patch note is added saying there is a 32 bit buffering problem. Hmmmm......

I love my Bethesda games. They will always have my money, but they taught me a important lesson....Dont let Wuliheron bully you.

[CHANONE]

Who is wuliheron?!?

99% of his post come out swinging at OP's and telling people their PC's are ish. You're post are the same on Steam Forums. Trashing people.

This leads me to believe you are a paid employee of Zenimax/Bethesda. Public Affairs? Social Media Manager? Damage Controller? Pissed Dev? Someone on Gstaffs Team? Or Carmack himself! LoL

Rage is a great game, it just should of been delayed. They would of made more money and had less of these type of post.

Even with all the Skyrims bugs, I still purchased 3 copies of it because of the communication between Beth/Obsidian team to the consumers. They seem to listen to the community and bring updates they want.

ID/Beth team failed because they continue to blame Amd and Nvidia for "their" game. Now 3 months later a patch note is added saying there is a 32 bit buffering problem. Hmmmm......

I love my Bethesda games. They will always have my money, but they taught me a important lesson....Dont let Wuliheron bully you.

Nvidia put out a driver once that actually fried people's video cards, but yeah, I must be a bully and it must have been the game that fried their computers.

[Scott]

Even with all the Skyrims bugs, I still purchased 3 copies of it because of the communication between Beth/Obsidian team to the consumers. They seem to listen to the community and bring updates they want.

Dude, Obisidian has nothing to do with Skyrim.

[luke trodden]

Dude, Obisidian has nothing to do with Skyrim.

Just a suggestion, but unless you want to be called a bully you might not want to confuse him with the facts.

[Ellie English]

Just a suggestion, but unless you want to be called a bully you might not want to confuse him with the facts.

I wish I knew back in school I could bully people by confusing them to hell with facts. Maybe I wouldn't have got beaten so often.