Battle-Born or Grey-Mane? : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:56 pm

The Empire already lost the Second Great War the very moment they signed the White Gold Concordant. They allowed the Thalmor in to infect the Empire. The Thalmor has spies planted absolutely everywhere in the Empire, because the Empire allowed them too. If the Empire decides to attack the Aldmeri Dominion, the Thalmor will know exactly when/where/how they will do it, before the Empire even begins to. The Empire has already lost the war before it's even begun. Skyrim and Hammerfall at least want to fight the Thalmor on their own terms.

Guess what - The empire had spies planted all throughout the Aldmeri Dominion before the Great War. By letting the Thalmor into the Empire, they have set themselves up to just as dramatically issue a new ultimatum to the Aldmeri Dominion. Payback's awwesome.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:35 am

Even though I despise certain members of the Battle-Born clan (except mah buddy Jon) I automatically sided with them, since Grey-Manes are Stormcloak sympathizers. Sorry, but I'm a reason over heart person and the Grey-Manes' obnoxious patriotism gets on my nerves as well.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:15 pm

My character supports the Empire, but she respects the Stormcloaks (aside from the actually racist ones), but she prefers the Grey-Manes at face value. They are a hard-working, down-to-earth clan, and aren't snide and elitist like most of the Battle-Borns. There's also something to be said for a sweet old lady: Fralia. I am a pathetic svcker for sweet old ladies in distress. <3

The only Battle-Borns my character (or I) like is Jon, who she would have ran off with and married in a heartbeat, and Lars, because he just might be the only child NPC I've not had the urge to murder. He actually thinks I'm cool, instead of acting like a brat in need of a whoopin'.

So, at face value: Grey-Manes.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:55 am

As an Imperial sympathizer, I can't see a reason to support Battleborn. I'm usually all "Yeah! Empire! F- YEAH!" but I hate these guys. Olfrid and Idolaf are complete jerkfaces. Lars and some others are okay. They actually kidnapped a guy and sold him! I can't like anybody who actually deals with the Thalmor honestly. Any empire-loving family would not do such a thing.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:53 am

[TAB]

followed immediately by...

[crash to desktop]

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:19 pm

Battle-born, since I support the Empire (if having to choose between Empire/Ulfric). However I have very little interest in either family, let them solve their own problems.

Wow, that's harsh. Can't believe a nation like Norway would have such a problem. But then again, it's not in the EU... I recommend you cross the border to Finland!

Single species, you mean? Major classifications like Black and White are races, classifications like Russian and Han Chinese are ethnicities. Racism occurs in both classifications: the White Nationalist movement for one does not make difference between German and Russian and concentrate their hatred on people of different skin pigmentation, while for example Nazis showed little interest in other races and focused on tormenting people of other white European ethnicities if they happened on their way (Slavs, mostly).

That said I personally would classify Men, Mer, Argonian and Khajiit as species while Bosmer, Redguard etc. are Races. Ethnicities do not appear in Tamriel, as all members of each race apparently have identical genetics sans their phenotype.

EDIT: Come to think of it, it's a lot more complicated than I thought... Scientific classification of species is that the two compared units cannot produce fertile offspring... Everyone in Tamriel is apparently capable of it except the Beasts. But then there's the whole "mother decides it all" genetics..... Sigh, that's what I get for applying real life science to games.

Calling other ethnicity a "different species" is a very slippery and fast path to social Darwinism, which is a very dark definition. Ethnicity can be used in a multitude of ways, but is primary the method used in discerning the ancestral background of a particular group of individual, such as Caucasian, African, etc. Neanderthal and Cro Magnum would be considered another species from our Homo Sapien, but not black or white who both belong to the same species. Racism is the belief that one group has an inheritance superiority over another though birth traits. Ironically, by definition, this is true in TES games. Each group has their own special powers, such as the Imperials +5 to longsword, that the High elves do not have. However, saying one family is better than another is not racism in the Gray mane/Battle Born case. Even saying the Nords could beat the Wood Elves into a stupor in a brawl is not technical racism, as Wood Elves are simply an ethnicity of the Elven Race. "Seen any elves?" would be a racist statement, however as you point out this is a game, and that royalty complicates things.

Overall, i think people are far too sensitive and spam the word racist over everything. It's a game and people need to lighten up. I don't play the Kajeet or Argonians because they are not my style, and yet i am called (quite maliciously) a racist. I think the whole racist word needs to be bleeped, as it is irrelevant to TES as no one is Human to begin with, and racist is a Humanly specific term.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:00 pm

Grey-Mane. All you have to do is talk to the patron of the Battle-Born clan and you'll hate him.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:18 am

Gray-Mane. An honourable family who have treated me right and thus I'll treat them right as well.
The Battle-Borns are all a bunch of money svckling, racist jerks who sell their own people out to the thalmor.

There are no Nords or Imperials, only citizens of the Empire. It's a well documented fact that the only reason the Empire had to sign the White-Gold concordat was because the knife-ears had been doing what they do best, courting goats. So dumbfounded had the Empire been, that they imminently signed peace upon the discovery that most of it's imperial livestock had been violated and impregnated during the occupation. "From Anvil to Leiwyn, one in three babies born to Imperial livestock had been of a Thalmor Soldier." ~ Anonymous Thalmar high ranking official

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:11 am

So we'll sit around squabbling about the Imperials did this, the Imperials did that, and that we Nords founded the Empire in the first place. We'll squabble about this stuff. But http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Answer is in my sig

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:45 am

I thought the point of the game was that the Battle-Borns and Greymanes were both fundamentally decent people. You know, the letter being where the Battle-Borns are trying to get back their former friends son from the Empire peacefully. It was a beautiful and sweet moment that goes to show how two groups of people who were once close friends can be torn apart by civil war.