Battle-born, since I support the Empire (if having to choose between Empire/Ulfric). However I have very little interest in either family, let them solve their own problems.

Wow, that's harsh. Can't believe a nation like Norway would have such a problem. But then again, it's not in the EU... I recommend you cross the border to Finland!

Single species, you mean? Major classifications like Black and White are races, classifications like Russian and Han Chinese are ethnicities. Racism occurs in both classifications: the White Nationalist movement for one does not make difference between German and Russian and concentrate their hatred on people of different skin pigmentation, while for example Nazis showed little interest in other races and focused on tormenting people of other white European ethnicities if they happened on their way (Slavs, mostly).

That said I personally would classify Men, Mer, Argonian and Khajit as species while Bosmer, Redguard etc. are Races. Ethnicities do not appear in Tamriel, as all members of each race apparently have identical genetics sans their phenotype.

EDIT: Come to think of it, it's a lot more complicated than I thought... Scientific classification of species is that the two compared units cannot produce fertile offspring... Everyone in Tamriel is apparently capable of it except the Beasts. But then there's the whole "mother decides it all" genetics..... Sigh, that's what I get for applying real life science to games.

Part of the Imperial Legion but support the Grey-Manes...

Grey-Mane (woohoo, go Stormcloaks)

How can you not feel sorry for that old lady and the information you find out about her son?


The Battle-Borns are pricks.

It may be so, but regardless of their own intentions, they managed to end the war with some great sacrifices, and helped the whole Empire by doing so.

Not true. They fight for the freedom of Skyrim from the Empire, and many are good people.

Actually, Jorn Battle-born is likeable! He's a great warrior-bard, and a level-headed guy.


They don't kill people because of their beliefs - The Thalmor are the only ones executing anyone for Talos worship. The Empire doesn't even persecute Stormcloak sympathizers - Only if their actions lead to the death or suffering of Imperial Citizens do they take action against them.

Also, you have NO idea what racism means - Religion and Beliefs have nothing to do with Race. Or do you think that monsters such as the Forsworn should have their right to butcher innocent people for Eldritch Rituals, bloody sacrifice, and [censored] and giggles be respected as well?

I do see your point here; the Imperial choice is defensible; but so is the choice of the rebels not to passively submit to the situation with the Thalmor.
So there seems to be right and honour on both sides.

That I can agree with.

So was the USA part of England or most of South America part of Spain (My own country, BTW).
And It might just as bad. The Empire is reduced to three provinces, whithout Skyrim probably just Cyrodiil, and Its rulers are no longer their rightful founders, the Septims. Besides, Hammerfell did fine without the Empire against the Thalmor, It's in the lore.

@Scow: It's not racism, though, It's intolerance or Xenophobia.

@Pistolero: All human pertain to the same race, the Homo Sapiens Sapiens, part of the Homo Sapiens species. There are several ethnicities or ethnic groups, though. In Tamriel elves could be considered part of the same species as men, for they have fertile offspring when they breed, though they're probably a diferent race.

Me? I think every nation has the right of self determination, and such thing is only achieved by brute force (not anymore, though, for different reasons). The Empire might want to rule over some provinces, but has no right to do so, and needs to make full use of Its strenght to keep It that way.

I usually support the Empire, but I don't see the point of the Battle-Born/Grey-Mane feud. I stay friendly with both sides.

I don't think the argument "Which is better? The Empire or Stomcloaks" will ever end. It's like the song from Lambchop, it goes on and on.

People will see the Empire as in the right and others will see the Stormcloaks in the right. I could sit here all day and make my point on how the Stormcloaks are in the right, but it will do little good to sway those players who love the Empire. So, I carry on and continue to wave my flag in support of the Stormcloaks and respect those who support the Empire by stabbing them in the back .

The Battle-Borns sold their honor and culture for wealth and politics.

The Grey-Manes honor tradition, and they make some impressive weapons.


I'm going Grey-Manes even though I'm a Legion supporter.

I typically go with the Imperials in the grand scheme of things, but jeez.... Those Battle-borns are pompous and annoying.

#1 - This would make sense if it had been England rebelling against the U.S. colonies, instead of vice-versa. Skyrim is the spine of the Empire - WIthout Skyrim, there is no Empire. Without the Empire, there is no Skyrim.


#2 - Sure, the Empire may no longer be a mighty conquest-bent military machine capable of taking anything it wants, from anyone, at any time... but the people who stick with the Empire generally have a much higher quality of life than those suffering under Stormcloak Rule. If it weren't for Ulfric Stormcloak, there'd be no religious persecution - The Nords could stick with worshiping Talos in their daily routine without incident.

Depending on what you just say I think you don't understand what is racism. As I said earlier racism can mean all kind of discrimination - not only the one connected to your race. Any kind of inequality or discrimination depending on birth-origins, religion or beliefs, language, culture, social or economical status or race is racism.
Anyway there's difference between religion and ritual murders. You have to have right to freely believe and think what you will. As long as you can exercise your faith without harming others there's no problem in it.

By no means. The first rulers of the Empire were Nords, in fact all mankind in Tamriel comes from the North except for Yokudans, but truth is that Mede is not a Nord ruler, nor is Skyrim the seat of power of the Empire (It's never been so since Tiber Septim used the Numidium. The Empire is, and has always been, ruled from Cyrodiil, not from Skyrim. Nords jsut took whatever Cyrodiil wanted to pour on them.
So you say the White-Gold concordat was nothing but a farce? Because I see a Thalmor Embassy in Skyrim and several prisoners being carried away by Thalmor for openly worshipping Talos. My character is by no means a Talos Worshipper, but he believes in the freedom of speech.

Isn't this pretty much a question of Imperials or Stormcloaks? Even if you're judging based on their personalities rather than their side in the war, both families pretty much reflect the attitude of their chosen side.

Edit:

No. Why do you think it's called racism? Other sorts of discrimination have their own words too, and if they don't, you can just say "discrimination".

I tell that one Battle-born guy Battle-born just so he won't give me crap when I'm in Whiterun. Tell people what they want to hear (and then do what you want). I do like Eorlund. He's the only "Ahnold" voiced character I like in this game. I purposely ask him (in his dialog options) "Who are you?" just to hear him say "Huh? You know who I am fool!".

Even though you're wrong, you still have a point. What you mean to say is that the Imperials are just as bigoted, prejudiced, or at least cowards for denying the Nords their religion. Prejudiced/bigotry are identical to racism, but racism, is not the same thing as being anti-freedom, even though it's just as evil.

For instance, if I were a homophobe, I would still not be racist, because I don't care about race. But denying of freedom for any stupid reason is still stupid.

That's the meaning it has when they started to talk about racism but at least in my country racism can be understand with larger scale. For example have you ever heard about age-racism? And when you read news they are talking about just racism when there's discrimination depending on religion or culture. There's no difference which is the reason for racism or discrimination it's still the same thing.

Is English your second language? I don't mean to be patronizing, but you may be confusing racism with discrimination in general.

Except their not. Most Imperials are aware that most of them descend from Nords and that their empire was created by a Nord. They do see themselves as more civilized yes, but that's more to do with culture than race. They also do worship Talos. He was the most important deity to them for thousands of years. He's part of their religion too. Thing is, do you keep your faith and lose whatever chance you've got at the Thalmor? Or do you throw dignity out the window and fight another day?

The Imperials hate the Aldmeri Dominion as much, if not more so, than the Stormcloaks.

Which means exactly zilch when you let pointy eared Nazis waltz into your territory and slaughter Talos worshipers, like that one group of freshly murdered Talos worshipers I found at the Shrine near Riverwood.

@Nago: It's just plain discrimination, not racism. The Stormcloaks aren't actually racist, they would be xenophobic at most (I support the Stormcloaks, BTW), which would be translated to something like "discrimination towards the strangers or stranger, foreign things".
I see this argument over and over again, but the fact is that The Empire HAS BANNED the worship of Talos, It's not like they're their secret worshippers, or the end all be all of Tamriel. Provinces can watch for themselves pretty well (as Hammerfell demonstrated and Ulfrics states at the end of the Civil War if you side with the SC, preparing to fight the Thalmor), and they should be able to set their own laws, no matter what a guy seated in Cyrodiil decides for them. Mede gave part of Hammerfell to save his own ass and Redguards kick him out and the Thalmor aswell, he also gave part of Skyrim's freedom when he banned Talos worshipping and the same happened here (Assumign you joined the SC).

The Empire is halfway done, with just three provinces and reduced to only Cyrodiil without Skyrim.

All hail the Empire.

. . . "ROMANS! GET'EM!"