Ok, it's their decision to do so, and in many cases it works.

But in my mind, there are some limits. This seems more or less like a GM that don't know how to tailor the game dynamically, then he asks the player "You just fell in a trap door. Do you want to leave unharmed or take 1d4 damage?"


But anyway, the main issues are not even related to choices. Main problem is the many many useless perks that no one ever considered taking..

I m with the OP.
What people refuse to understand is the fact that Bethesda has turned into a platform layer. I mean, it lay the bare minimum acceptable world layer (visual and geography) and enter in this who wish.
Now we have to wonder why bethesda has come to a strong RPG background to a design failing company. The answer is simple and can be easily cut on 2 main reasons:
1) Player wishes, many player just want a FPS with swords and spells , and coldly anolysing Skyrim, well, thats it.
2) Nonopole. Bethesda is a monopolistic company in the sense, all the wanna be RPG companies wen t online, vomiting the same ever again, which let road clean and lean. And any monopolistic complany will have it as lazy as it can afford to

And the minimum acceptance of the market is: nice grafics, minimum gameplay.
Who is throwed out the window ? Game design, and thats what we ve seen in Oblivion and skyrim, bad or weak game design, that cannot be blamed on technology restriction anymore, added with some minimalization of the game features as it had to work with the weakest game platform on the market.
So all platforms have as result, the poorest result it could have (exclude the weakest platform that have the better result it could have).
This become absolutely blattant when you play skyrim on PC, in less than 3 weeks the game looks stuningly better than vanilla just by : Tweaking .INI's and raising texture resolutions. There s no reasons for such failure in the INI lay out. And this is the same for the more powerfull consoles.
Another fact that scream it, its: NO manual at all, not even a PDF, wordpad, nothing.

Bethesda never did a game for PS3, XBOX360 or PC... it did a game for XBOX and that s it, no matter what have been sayd.

Unbalance, few skills, remotion of attributes, Morrowind limitations on character, patethic cities and villages, small setting and shallow dungeons are the results of the company choices, which are the result of the market structure.
1) Lay a bare world, letting the comunity do the rest (for the platform gamers that are fortunate to have this possibility)
2) weak implementation and gameplay limited by choice of master platform.

Bethesda as the majority of the companies act by the lowest comon denominator, and so are the results. And thats it, and will be it, until someone kick in and confront Bethesda with a similar, better thought and designed product.

Your points have no logic. All i see you say is, you want ot be everything. When that's the last thing we all want and I think it's been made clear. I chose mace and guesse what, my 2 handers also at 100 skill. and it does 1000 X less dmg... God you really don't get it. I had both those at 100 in Oblivion, and swapped for variety... with the option to throw a heal or buff, as i was a PALADIN, a VIABLE class in most rpg's that do not do everything!, but can use 2 handers, 1 h maces, heal, and buff!!. simple things I cannot pick without completely nerfing my build by wasting points into 2 weapon trees and feel liek a dummy.

So i want to make a monk, or a shaman, liek did in the previous games, and that's wanting everything?.. The possibilities of the what 24+ skills in some of the previous games gave room for more costumization, and suddenly we are presented with JUST enough to pull off 3 classes, maybe a warrior thats slightly differant than another... I prefered the variations of vastly strong capible warriors that had choice. Mages that did waaaay more stuff, and with the combinations you could create things like: Arcane warriors, paladins, shamans, mixing mystisism, illusion and thievery to make an interested bardic type character were all common things, that oned your roll playing experience...

What I get here is that, all you can say is I want everything.... ok i get that part. But I told you I don't.... No, is no.
You love trolling and not having to make stratigical choices in your roll while playing a game. In otherwords, these 3 simplified classes that can hardly be mix and matched for unity in a roll is "good enough" for you, when they set our expectations higher in 1995... This tells me you don't really give a damn about your roll and you just wanna fap over the amount of quests piling up in your journal.

The dumbest thing about all this, is your telling me that this game isn't meant to be played where your every class and your saying that's all i want.... Yet they require to level all skills to cap out. to play your character as EVERY class to max out. And that's the entire reason I was saying the system is broken, and Told you in my last post to read the post leading up to the parts you jumped in and started rambling un-logical remarks.

Now, go back and read the threads and get familiar with the strong points of the arguements at hand, just like a normal person would. You probley didn't even read how that post you replied to actually started from someone talking about agreeing that its stupid that I have to paly a mage thief and warrior, to cap out a warrior.

You completely have no reason to be in here posting. Infact I'm curious to what actually brought you here in the first place. I expecting maybe you needed your fic in weekly trollling, or started realizing this game is terrible buggy to a gamebreaking point, and has completely broken and far less expansive leveling system than ANY of the previous Elder scrolls series... You clearly are a terrible Bethesda fan. Because I love Bethesda so much, I know exactly how to tell them when there Shiat STINKS.

IF I had a booger hanging out of my nose, Id appreciate it if your pointed it so I can clean it up. This game requires polish in areas I CANNOT say for the rest of Bethesda's products. Which we all know had bugs, some even so bad I quit the game. And yet im still a loyal fan because they stick true the series of what Elder scrolls is. They are consistant in delivering us new story and lore that is cohesive with it's history. Anotherthing I talked about which you never read! But you know what, They didn't [censored] up my ability to get creative on my characters in the past, I'll adress they have this time, and to top it off, the difficulty slider at max doesn't really challange me unless i forcefully make a nerfed character. When they could easily bump that up to make "OP" characters viable and im not forced to play the game around these silly fairy rules i make for myself.

Do yourself a favour, and read into the damn posts about the system functionality and how people are finding "lame" compared to previous elder scrolls systems.Read the fact, the points of view, viable fixes and solutions, things that could have been done better. And if your at all hummbled and less of a dike, come back and let's have a real conversation about how we can adress these issues through reaching out to Bethesda or the modding community....

Otherwise close your mouth, your mumble jumble isn't wanted here. People like viable logical explanations to agree or disagree on.

I think your point says a lot.

Graphics and gameplay appear on the hype. Game design does not.

At release date, the game was ready regarding graphics and gameplay. With a few bugs, but ready enough. Game design was clearly not finished. Some people refuse to accept this for reasons I don't understand, but it's true. But that does not mean that Bethesda can't tweak it later. Both xbox and ps3 can be patched very easily, so there's really no reason to not finish what was unfinished (unless they are already on TES 6). Bethesda even have the support of the players, who have tested lots of things related to game mechanics and even have already suggested the changes.

"Skyrim is a game where you get out of it, what you put in it."

I put a nickle into a pop machine once, and it gave me nothing. I put 95 cents more in, and pressed cola, and I got a creamsoda...
I don't agree to that saying at all. The pop machine was only full of creamsoda's and the choices were all illusions to make me think i had more choices. When really the old pop machine had alot less buttons, but I always walked away happy with my soda. I'm not sure if I can swallow this cream soda, someones going to have to re-think this flavour through...

That's when they discovered cherry cola, it's a nice balance to make both sides happy....

It's a simple formula really, And I think I made a good point when I said the Bethesda is taking the fallout side projects to seriously. Their mixing up the formulas and it's freaking me out man!!.

How is lock picking useless, when Mages can no longer use open lock spells?

Lockpicking perks are useless.. Level 1 starting of the game, player can easily unlock EXPERT locks with under 5 lockpicks. Therefor, lockpicking is useless... Same applies to pickpocketing minus 3 perks for increased weight capacity....

Unless ofcourse you want lockpicking ot be even easier, for the cost of say less points into your main weapon, armor, crafting or magic... Which would you lower for lockpicking?... I swear the game is cornering me into 3 solid choices and telling me to connect the dots so I feel like i did it myself. Even the questing is suggested that you active all quests and connect the dots. Through connecting dots, i level and connect more perk dots!? aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!?!?!?/.. I understand and fealt like i knew and had so much control over attributes and skills... sometimes I don't like change and im ignorant at first about it.... These perks any one person can see that half of them are nearly useless or not exciting at all... Attributes are boring ok, but what makes them good, is the fact that they govern something, even multiple things, this allows for planning and stratigy, but also puts up boundries and limitations, but in such a way we can create dozens of unique combinations. Perks are perks, and we pretty much all know which ones to not get, and which ones would be recommended, the wiggle room each player is left with is, really nothing unless you cap to lvl 80.. Then it's a matter of did you add in duel weilding to your thief? did you manage to also get speech too? nice!... GG.

If I told you I was a warrior in skyrim, you could guesse my perk trees. I said im a warrior in Oblivion, you would actually then ask me, what kind?!... Has anyone not noticed this? My mom made a fricken Uber crazy shock doctor shaman with a giant axe in Oblivion. Used ice spells while hammering a 2 hander. My mom ok, and she's really having a hard time with skyrim right now. Loves everything, but wishes it was oblivion controls and layout. I really hate not being able to use the 8 buttons on the d-pad myself. Id take the 8 buttons of the list anyday. Or had the option. or have an option to put the menu on 1 of the 8 keys!... durrrr...

If there underpowered then don't put any points in them The next Elder Scrolls needs less skills so it's more balanced

Its not able people "not accepting" something, its that most of us don't see the problems you seem folks seem to invent as you go.

I have 4 characters, all with different builds and skills. One I even power leveled up smithing to 80 just because I felt like it.

My level 50 Destruction Mage isn't weak, he's crazy powerful, I can't even understand the complaints about destruction, its perfectly fine.
My level 23 Warrior (the one who smithed like crazy) is an untouchable killing machine.
My level 14 "Thief" character can already 1-shot most enemies with a bow from X3 hidden shot bonus.

You people whining about "balance" in a single player game astounds me.

I don't try to exploit the game, I just make a character and play...and nothing ever seems broken.

This is not true.

The perk part is true, there are too many useless perks to both with anything in the try. But you can't pick an expert lock with <5 picks at level 1, not unless you guess REALLY REALLY well. Even the SLIGHTEST turn of the lock in the wrong position usually snaps the pick instantly.

Zenn3k, I think Destruction needs to be on par with archery for range damage. Currently, it's much weaker in the higher skill levels. And once again, a single player game does not mean that balance shouldn't be sought between the different comparative builds. Each build should be on par with eachother, just different. Yes, even in a single player game.

If you crack the numbers on destruction, it's pretty easy to see that it doesn't match up in the end game. A fix should be made, although I agree there are certainly higher priorities in the immediate future (like the PS3 lag issue!)

I liked that - Yes. There will be mods and tons of mods. I play on Xbox. I will never be able to use a single one, yet I paid the same price for my game.

i do agree that all the skills need a balance patch , some made stronger , some made a lot weaker .

You shouldnt end up completely OP or UP unless you set out with that as your goal , or were very stupid.

having said that i still think its a great game and the best since daggerfall.

I got that shiat on "lock" down ok. snap one in the middle, one to the left, one to the right, by then if you havn't found the clear spot, it's gotto be one of the two spots inbetween. you'll hit the clear spot within 5 tries max if your good. Then fixate your eye ona piece of dirt so if your lock breaks you adjust the other way of the dirt peice fixated on. and door opens. Under 5 tried, I said this specifically cause I had 5 picks at an expert door and was ready to reload my game 10000 times to open it. But to my suprise, she opened up! and now I just laugh everytime i scroll past it in my perk page....

Hmm. Guess I'm doing it wrong. My highest skill (level 38) is one-handed. It's 79. Gonna be a good while before I get anything to 100.



Personally, I don't think it's as important in a single player game that the different "builds" be balanced against each other. They DO need to be balanced against the game - each general (not wacky crazy) build or class must be able to face the challenges the game presents. But Mage DPS =/= Warrior DPS. They just both have to be viable.

I blame MMOs for all the whining.

The current crop of MMOs are awful. MMO development companies all seem to gave a singular goal of trying to "beat" WoW and have in the process created an industry of WoW clones.

Players are looking for something new and they are turning to SRPGs for that. The problem is, they are MMOers, not RPGers. They're used to easy-mode, quick-fix game experiences. Anything that takes more than 10 seconds to figure out is going to be perceived as game imbalance. Anything that requires thought and a bit of tactical planning to accomplish is pretty much outside their skill-set.

Eventually (I hope) a good MMO will come out and those types will wander off to play it.

Yeah, calling people names and stomping your foot down when they don't agree sure gets the point across.

You make my point so many times over and over again. You want one character to do everything you desire and do it well. "Wah!!!....Wah!!! It's broke daddy!".

Lets see, under the guise of calling your character a paladin you want to be a buffer, a warrior (who specializes in multiple weapons), a healer and want to do them ALL well.

You said yourself.....


The player either makes a choice to be half-way decent at two weapons or really good at one weapon.......Seems like decision that requires some thought. Pro's and con's for each pick. "Wah....Wah" I do not want to give up my powerful mace, daddy, but....but it wont let me get strong in a two-handed with out practicing....wah wah!!!"

So you want to be as good with your two-handed weapon as you are with the mace with out exerting the effort or resources it took to get the mace that strong......

Wah!!!....Wah!!!....



You want to be good at everything you desire with no consequences or drawbacks. You can do this. Type ~ then TGM.

Then go drink the cherry cola and leave the creme soda to us big boys.

There are people complaining that the game is too hard?

Anything that requires thought and a bit of tactical planning to accomplish is pretty much outside their skill-set.

I'd like to know what requires tactical planning in skyrim character builds. From what I see and experience, theres a [censored] tun of guides on how to not ruin your gameplay experience by making the game to easy. Or what builds not to make cause there to OP or UP. The tactics is really all about trying to figure out a build that you can actually enjoy. From what I see mages arn't happy, thieves got dished out a bunch of useless perks, and warriors have to pick 1 of 10 weapon types all which will be viabley the same....

I'm not an MMO'r, and I find this is the easy mode game compared to anything ive played from Bethesda thus far... In the past games I remember feeling frial at times and overcoming that. Skyrim i accidentally level'd up blacksmithing and so happened to have all the dragon bones to make the full set in the first 10 hours of gameplay. All just from showing interest in my warriors perks. My tactic was to try my character out. And I found the win button, people are telling me not to press it and just sell the dragon armor or not get blacksmithing. Those are the sort of tactics required coming into a game like this, atleast from what I read in these forums...

This is an extremely intelligent perspective and will sheds lights on what people goals when building a character. i.e. a mage svcks because it cant put out the damage of a warrior...screw playing a weak character build....when in reality should not be comparing it to the warrior but the game.

One that requires the player to decide what weapons he wants to be proficient at. Of which you cried like a baby when you had to make that tactical planing choice. Screaming its "it's broke daddy"

Big boys drink Cola.

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