If $5 is that much to you, you should be working instead of playing an RPG anyway. This DLC is, in a word, novelty. No new gameplay, but it adds a few role playing aspects and all around five dollars worth of new stuff. For $20, I wouldn't have bought it. For $5, Why not? The adoption is cool, and adds a great roleplaying aspect. I have as much fun with my Imperial family man as my battleaxe swinging Nord mercenary/hero/BAMF.

Nine out of ten times when you make an uneducated purchase, you're going to be dissapointed. Hearthfire is awesome to be a $5 micro expansion, similar to the Battlehorn Castle/Thieves Den/etcetera in Oblivion, but this is even better with more content.

QFT
It's easily worth its $5 but still...

I feel the same way, and I'm pretty tired of the "It's only $5, what do you expect?" argument. I'd have preferred if they went all out, and I would have been willing to pay extra for them to go all out. As it is, I feel like I'm playing the demo version of a much richer housing DLC.

These are all really good suggestions, and most importantly they take account of what the way in which Skyrim is built and designed. There seem to be some folk here who are asking for things like "complete freedom to build my house anywhere and however I want!", which is nice, but not really doable when you take into account the way the games are put together (which is, as I understand it, much the same as it was back in Morrowind).

Your original post was understandable. But this is just sarcasm for the sake of it. Aside from the glitches here and there, the only thing that bothers me is being limited to three wings. I'd like to build them all for a mansion, or Battleborn kind of place.

It was obvious from the trailer, and the $5 price, that this wasn't going to be major DLC. Aesthetic complaints aside, which are valid IMO, I don't think that the word "duped" applies here. Disappointing, for some? Sure. But not duped.

THIS!

Many people have been WAITING for a home making dlc or upgrading dlc, or even just something remotely comparable to the oblivion house dlcs. Want to know what the community was actually suggesting months before hearthfire was even announced?

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1379622-we-should-get-strongholds-thread-2/page__hl__we%20should%20get%20stronghold

This is thread two. There's a poll on thread one. Many of us were expecting them to go all out, or at least give us an improved version of what we got in morrowind. Instead we got this half-hearted crap. Yes, crap. I say this because this was obviously Bethesda's one and only attempt at making Skyrim's house dlcs. They're not going to go back and make something similar that's better because that would mean no one would buy this hearthfire crap. This is the only time they'll do a house-making addon for this game and 5 bucks or not that infuriates and dissapoints me.

As I said, I would have accepted OBLIVIONS house dlcs. You couldn't customize much but at least each was ENTIRELY UNIQUE, had a DIFFERENT THEME AND ARCHITECTURE, had a plethora of SECRETS, EASTER EGGS AND UNMARKED QUESTS, and gave your character a PERSONALITY beyond just "some dude who lives in Cyrodiil".

This addon is a disgrace! I'm sorry I'm getting so mad here but this really just pisses me off for some reason. We got the bare minimum. *Sigh* I guess that's all I've got to say.

Well, I've seen others play HF, and know what it does and does not provide. And I intend to purchase it the moment it becomes available for the PS3. And my wrath will be terrible if it does not. A lot of others feel as I do. You're welcome to disagree, of course. Maybe the next DLC will suit you better.

@Psychotrip So in other words, you are pissed and raging because you didn't get exactly what you wanted? Sounds typical enough. Many people got what they wanted: a roleplaying element added to the game. Not all DLCs are about "OH MY WORD IS SO EPIC" stuff. Oblivion's were interesting enough, but one thing bothered me to death about it: they just fell into your lap. "Hey your uncle (whom you never met in all those months of traversing Cyrodill) just died and left you a tower (that occupies a previously barren peak)." Or "Help save us from three marauders! Oh, we're alive! Here, take our castle!" One thing I like about this is that it is integrated into the world. It feels natural.

But all that aside, the fact that you don't particularly like what you got does not give you the right to rage about the devs being lazy, their stuff being crap, and so on. They aren't YOUR private labor force to crank out your exact tastes.

As for Bethesda's future plans: you haven't the foggiest just like the rest of us so don't try to use your rage-laced presumptions to sway people to your side and shore up your "argument."

Well I think I'm allowed to hate something just like you're allowed to like it. I'm glad you were able to enjoy hearthfire. I just wish they'd gone farther with it. Oh and no I dont REALLY know what betesds is planning in the future, but I'm pretty sure they wont make another, more expansive house dlc when they already made one. If they did that no one would buy the old one right? It's just not something I see them doing.

In the end we'll agree to disagree, sound fair? :]

It appears to me that Hearthfire is a niche dlc. Whether it is an experiment by Beth, or intended as a fully credible addition to the game are both legitimate questions.

From observing what the Xbox people are saying, I'm tempted to think that Beth perhaps should have released Hearthfire as a freebie download. My reasoning for this is that there are severe limitations in the dlc - choice of where you build, choice of what you build, etc; Plus, it would appear that the post- main game release of Hearthfire may not have required much, if any, effort on Beth's part...a month or two (maybe longer) before Hearthfire was released a 'house building' mod was released for PC, which as far as I can see does pretty much everything that Hearthfire does, with the same limitations...I'll be contentious here, and suggest that it's possible that Beth duplicated or imitated that mod for the Hearthfire dlc, in which case, although they may be (questionably) legally entitled to do so, it isn't ethical to do so and then ask players, especially console users, to cough up money, even a small sum, for that dlc. In view of the low dlc price, and the aiming of the dlc at the xbox consoles, I can't help but think along cynical lines with this.

I said this same point before with Dawnguard: That dlc cost 1/3 of the main game, roughly, yet only really added niche content. Hearthfire simply provides xbox'ers with a copy of a pc mod, and charges them for it (this isn't a question of 'value', but a question of the rightness of the decision to charge a price in the first place).

Just my thoughts.

Then what does give us the right ? I mean, I'd like to think Beth might eventually get around to fixing some of the numerous outstanding bugs still plaguing the vanilla game, but here we are nearly a year later, and we still have loads of them. Not just minor ones either. Why? Because they don't have the time and resources? No, because they do have the time and resources, but because the laws of diminishing returns have set in, they'd rather devote their time and resources to cranking out bugged DLC content for a bugged base game rather than thoroughly debugging the base game. No money to be made in patches, after all.

So, yes. I will rage. I will rage that their idea of continued support is ignoring outstanding issues in favor of churning out sub-par DLC that they figure they can make a few bucks off until it's time to abandon Skyrim in time for Fallout 4 where they'll inevitably repeat this practice.

This.

I've got admit that I support Little Beard's post. There are other companies that turn out patches and minor additions on a regular and timely basis, and who have a far higher level of communication with their fanbase and forumites.

The frustrating thing with Beth is that patches tend to be churned out as irregular single mass-patches, there is little to no communication with us on what will be patched, whether another patch is in the pipeline, etc etc...and this leads to frustration if you begin to question just whether there will be a patch to fix some of the core issues or game stability problems. Sure, I accept that there is probably a difference between the resources needed to patch, and the resources needed to dlc, but there's an awful lot of money that rolled in and not a lot of patches that rolled out. I hardly think that Beth is one of the companies likely to go to the wall due to less than expected returns from release sales...which raises the question, if the biggest selling Steam game of all time (then) can't afford to be patched, where did the money go?

Just needed to quote this to agree with it.

I remember when I got the castle in OB, I spent ages waiting to discover something really awful about it (a monster in the dungeon or something) that compelled someone to give it to me just because I happened to be passing by. Alas...

it is 3 houses, 2 kids and a dog DLC, take it or leave it.

But very few of those bugs break the game, just people's expectations. Yes, there are issues, but the truth of the matter is something about Skyrim was changed to the point the DLCs will also be affected.

Let's say you got your wish, and Bethesda produced a full-on house building DLC. What would be the point if we couldn't customize it because the core game flips objects upside down before setting, or worse, requires us to drop items, leave the cell, and return before we place them or risk re-entering the cell with our stuff in their original position?

Yes, I'd love to see these issues fixed, but there seems to be a disconnect from fans to understand what it takes to make a game. There are bean counters and developers, and guess which one works for the other.

I've read, many times, Bethesda's devs were put under pressure to get a game ready by a release of 11/11/(20)11, for the gimmick date.

Stop and think about this. A developer would love nothing more than to get a more complete game out, but they didn't have this choice and it seems everyone forgets this.

I truly feel for the developers, who come to this forum and read the complaints, frustrated they were forced to release a game because some damn suit said "Get 'er done by 11/11/11". We already know there are issues to back this alleged 11/11/11 date to be true, such as dialogue regarding the removal of the Thieves Guild but without the actual mechanic to do so. Hell, even the DB quest can be stopped, but we're not given any mechanic to let us know this. We have to talk to a guard, in a TES game, which is usually the other way around.

Bethesda does have resources, but to fix them means Skyrim 2.0, and you can bet this would be a much larger loss in the long term because most people have already played the game and won't shell out $70 for another version.

Asking to fix Skyrim now is equivalent of fixing a house on a foundation that's cracked and sinking, all because someone who knows nothing about programming said to do it.

Let's just hope these idiot bean counters walk away from this with making TES 6 better, but given how many people bought Skyrim, I'd say the message is lost, frankly.

I just http://uesp.net/wiki/Differences_Between_Morrowind,_Oblivion,_and_Skyrim and it's hard walking away from it without realizing how dumbed-down these games are getting (despite getting better looking) because bean counters are probably saying "Strip it down to save costs, and that's an order."

Trust me when I say this: sometimes, developers have to be reeled in because they'd want to put too much into a game, and it does need to be released at some point.

Look at the modding community for proof. They're still releasing mods, because developers don't have to work for Bethesda to make them.

Not me. Let's be clear on something. When I use the words "devs" or "developers", I"m not necessarily referring to every clock-punching, rank-and-file game coder who works on the game. In fact, I'm usually referring to The Powers That Be. The people over at Bethesda who make the decisions such as the one you've just mentioned. Buggy as Skyrim remains today, the pre-patched release version was much, much worse, and a strong argument could be made that it shouldn't have been released in such a state, yet it was. Why? Because someone (a suit, like you've said) at Bethesda decided that hitting the gimmick release date took precedent above ensuring that the game came without game-breaking issues. Maybe referring to everyone at Beth as "devs" isn't technically accurate, but it is a software development company, and rightly or wrongly "devs" has become a byword for anyone at Bethesda working at any level.

Fortunately for Beth, game reviewers are under similar pressure to get their reviews out in a timely fashion, and many of the game's numerous issues (the obvious example being the infamous PS3 memory leak issue) did not come to light until well after these reviews were published.


So, rather than address that particular issue (wonky item placement), it's better that they just disregard it entirely and produce a Big Mac version of a housing DLC that largely dodges the issue?


I'm going to disagree with you about the thorough debugging of Skyrim amounting to a long-term loss. It may certainly amount to a short-term loss, yes, but for long-term gain. The unfortunate thing about publicly-traded companies is that almost no consideration is given to the long-term. Shareholders don't want to read the word "loss" in a quarterly report. So, the business strategy of deliberately taking a short-term hit in the pursuance of long-term gain is usually out of the question, but it's a practice I frequently employ with my own business all the time. Would Beth make money off devoting their remaining efforts into thoroughly debugging Skyrim? No, they certainly wouldn't. Not in the short-term. But doing so would foster a tremendous amount of goodwill among players (such as myself) who don't hold a terribly high opinion of them. That's the long-term gain.

This is important, because I'd submit that the only thing that's keeping many players from forever turning their backs on Bethesda-- their only saving grace is that, to date, nobody is producing game franchises that rival theirs. Not really. They don't really have much in the way of direct competition. So, yes, why should they fret that their games are often derided for the sheer number of bugs that usually come with them? They still sell them by the truckload, and thus they can continue to sleep the blissful sleep of the monopolist-- secure in the knowledge that, no matter how much we gripe, many of us continue to hand money over to them in spite of ourselves.

But if and when the day comes along that a developer does start producing games that rival their TES and Fallout franchises, and if that developer demonstrates a firmer dedication to quality control and patching, Beth might find themselves in the position of having to do an about-face in their attitude towards such things. But by then it might be too late.

I will admit, I was hoping for maybe some more options, especially with the basemant. I would love to mine on a wall and accidentally hit a dungeon or something.

Indeed. Bethesda really isn't delivering with Skyrim DLC. Even if they push out another DLC before the 1 year anniversary it wont be a huge one.

You know what would have been cool? If they let you put up banners representing your favorite factions around the house. Maybe hang banners and paintings of the Night Mother and Sithis if you're a member of the Dark Brotherhood, stuff like that.

I think Hearthfire is a really cool concept, but they just need a bit more customization to truly represent your character. Change colors, put up banners, it would complete the entire experience.

Like the house themes in Fallout 3. This could have been taken farther in Skyrim, because of the more powerful engine.

QUOTE: it is 3 houses, 2 kids and a dog DLC, take it or leave it.

Up to three houses, up to two kids, and up to one dog. And don't forget the foxes, bunnies, and mudcrabs.

No wait that's a good point. Fallout 3 gave us several themes that completely changed the look of our suite / house. You could upgrade and add things to your home, but you couldn't really move things around or customize things. That was ok though because that was FOR FREE. You'd think that in a payed dlc, no matter how cheap, they'd IMPROVE upon something they already did instead of gutting the idea and replacing it with a few mediocre, hollow features. I guess what I'm saying is, it's 2012. Why not give us something SIGNIFICANTLY better than something that was only slightly inferior, free, and came out in, what, 2008?

Glad to see a few posts seem to have seen the light. bethesda take content that is already built into the main game give it a few tweaks and then sell the same content that you already bought in the original game back to you again.

This

As a TS3 simmer I couldn't help but when I read Little Beard's post

@Little Beard:
I'm assuming you don't own a PC. Because you would have figured this out from BYOH that Hearthfire is based on. Or at least not felt the need to complain because you could always go back to using the (more superior) BYOH mod.

I guess there's no real advantage to having an XBOX after all eh?

You've left me thinking that it's quite possible you've NEVER heard of a gaming publisher & software dev called EABorg?

No? Well be thankful Bethesda-Zenimax is NOTHING like this rotting cancer of a gaming company.

After EABorg assimilated Bioware, BEAware went on to destroy the Dragon Age franchise with DA2--one of the best rpgs to date. Same deal with the likes of small gaming indie devs with devoted fanbases the likes Bullfrog studios (Populous), Origin Systems (Ultima), Westfield studios (C&C), Mythic (Warhammer, Dark Age of Camelot), and especially Maxis (The Sims, SimCity, Spore franchises etc).

After EABorg assimilated these creative Indie devs, the successful games these franchises ever made have since taken a swan dive into the sewer where quality is concerned. Over the past 2 decades, EABorg has become reknown for producing broken, buggy game content, and providing non existent tech/customer support.

And since this isn't enough insult to it's fan bases, EABorg decided to cut all customer service and tech support for its gaming products. This even includes all of its big money makers like EASports (Madden, FIFA etc) . And don't get me started on how it f@cked over the SWOTR fan base with it's jacked up subscription model.

To date, EABorg continues to svck the living marrow out of the remaining dried bones of these once popular franchises.

Just an FYI: Bethesda sold the 2nd most profitable game of 2011 behind Activision's CoD MW3. In stark contrast, EABorg's infamy has become so great, that it ended up being voted one of the worst companies in America--along with the likes of Bank of America this year.

The bottom line is: Unlike a publisher & dev like EABorg, Bethesda's devs ACTUALLY LISTEN AND INTERACT WITH THE TES FAN BASE. A developer/publisher like EA HAS NOT, DOES NOT CARE TO AND NEVER WILL. The fact a bunch of Bethesda's devs were considerate enough to model Hearthfire off of AN EXISTING PC MOD is proof of this. The devs were actually responsive to XBOX community concerns on the lack of mods--particularly one which introduces more life simulation elements (adopting kids/family) which has NEVER EXISTED IN THE 18 YEAR HISTORY OF TES.

Yet all you can do is complain? Would you like some whine with that cheese mate?

No? Then do yourself a really big favor and head over to Newegg and buy yourself a decent TES gaming rig a.k.a. a PC. This amazing gaming invention will:

1. let you to correct a significant number of game play bugs on the fly with the cheat console and more importantly
2. let you access to a vast number of FREE game mods on Nexus and Steam and even better
3. give you the added flexibility to upgrade so you'll get superior graphics performance and game play and
4. let you create YOUR OWN BYOH MOD with CK---or any other mod your heart should desire.

This way, you wouldn't have to waste time coming on here to complain.

Of course, you sound like a really sharp chap. So doing #4 in particular should be a piece of cake. Especially because you sound so dissatisfied with the dlc. This alone should be enough incentive to produce an even more superior BYOH mod than Bethesda's--- right?

Now why do I suspect that if you owned a PC, you wouldn't be so bitterly complaining about this dlc?