This hasn't been confirmed...

My point is that Elder Lyons, not the Western BoS, would be dictating from the position of strength. Anyways, I doubt he'll be heading west as Bethesda will likely want him and Sarah to remain on the East Coast for sequel potential.
You're also treading some dangerous moral territory with the "orders must always be followed" argument, but this isn't the thread to discuss that, I suppose. Regardless, I don't see Lyons running back to answer to a beaten West Coast BoS that has more or less abandoned him when he's now one of the dominant powers on the US East Coast.


Charon sure would have good reason; if someone heading West buys his contract, he's bound to go. He appears to have no significant ties to the D.C. area, unlike most of the FO3 characters, and is one of the most competent fighters, meaning he'd stand one of the best chances of making it out of the FO3 cast. Most other FO3 characters either aren't believably tough enough to make it or have no reason to leave (most humans).

Fawkes is the other one who would be believable, as it's quite conceivable he would learn of intelligent Super Mutants on the West Coast and go to seek out others of his kind. He's also easily enough of a BAMF to survive the journey. Now that I think of it, he would make a lot of sense; the West Coast is where he can finally find a group of people more or less like him.

Personally, though? I want Butch to show up, if someone has to. Tunnel Snakes rule!




To be honest? It's pretty much impossible for me not to love any branch of the Brotherhood. Outcasts are my favorite, but I still love the Lyons Brotherhood and the West Coast BoS.

I wanna see the kids see if there not asses like last time thx you for child killing mods

I want the return of the Colonnel Autumn

I never said that he should blindly follow orders. I think you missed the part where I said that he failed to express his concerns regarding the mission. Elder Lyons failed on two fronts regarding his orders...and would've failed with the enclave too, had it not been for the lone wanderer. Maybe he should be executed as previously mentioned. :poke:

Charon has no real good reason to head out west. The lone wanderer still holds his contract. Had Broken Steel not have been released, I might agree with you on this.

Fawkes would be possible if he learned of intelligent super mutants. Same with Uncle Leo.

Butch wouldn't last ten minutes in the wasteland....Oh wait, he didn't, he died on me ten minutes after I hired him because he svcks :whistling:

All in all it would appear to me that Elder Lyons would make the most sense, It is practical and makes for a great story..

This is all considering that a rumor based on an unnamed source is taken as fact.


EDIT: My guess is that Col. Autumn is dead. I think most people in FO 3 just shot him instead of trying to pass the speech check.

He did express his concern, didn't you hear the line ingame about the Western BoS cutting off his support?
He certainly did talk to them about his change of heart, and they pretty much cut him loose for it. He's got no reason to go crawling back to them; contact them again, sure, but head out West? I think not after they abandoned him when he ended up being right all along.

And the Lone Wanderer may not hold Charon's contract depending on the game; even if he did, it'd be easy to say that the contract was given/sold to someone else, or even destroyed. All bets are off; they can say the LW and companions did whatever they want for purposes of the canon storyline. My LW never had Charon's contract, for example.

The other thing that wouldn't make too much sense with Lyons is that he wouldn't be going to the Mojave to answer to the BoS elders, but rather much father west into California; the DLC would have to be set pretty much just at Mariposa Military Base and would be kinda disconnected from the rest of the game;. What would the Courier be doing there? The Western BoS aren't going to let some wastelander walk into their most secure facility.

I agree. There is nothing for him in California anymore, the Capital Wasteland is his home now. Aside from the fact he's too old to make the trip, why would he go back West just as the policy he ruined his standing with the BoS for...helping the people of the Capital Wasteland...is finally paying off? After Broken Steel he is on the verge of victory and total vindication, only Vault 87 and the Super-Mutant threat remains as a serious threat. If Vault 87 is destroyed then the remaining problems...raiders, slavers, Talon company...are easy meat for BoS guns.

You presume that the high elders are unanimous. As we learned in FO1, they can't even decide when to take a dump much less where. I'm sure that Lyons going native certainly caused a stir, and riled up the conservative elders something fierce, and gave the more progressive high elders something to consider.

Adapt Or Die. It's the rule of life. It seems that the more conservative elements of the Brotherhood have chosen "die", as evidenced by the Mojave BoS chapter, and it seems that they're dragging down those who don't want to slavishly adhere to obsolete dogma with them.

As I understand it, elders are given pretty wide autonomy, as it seems a lot in the codex is all about "Obey Your Elder". If anything, the Outcasts are more in the wrong, because they didn't.

Why should they adapt when they have clearly failed as an organization. They couldn't keep advanced tech away from outsiders and recruiting and protecting wastelanders isn't going to change that. The Brotherhood should die off, the members can always move on.

Quite frankly I don't see how the BOS has managed to last as long as they have, they seen to be pretty darn inept when faced with a challenge.

The solution is to use the technology they possess to help the greater good in a controlled manner. That's what Lyons did, that's what Veronica proposes. Falling personnel numbers is a symptom, not an underlying cause. That cause is an obsolete and failed mission goal.

The problem is, as mentioned earlier, the more conservative elements that subscribe to ideology instead of pragmatism.

Hence... Adapt Or Die.

I think there's quite concrete grounds to argue that Lyons's orders were unethical; he was specifically directed to ignore the plight of the civilian population when he could have provided assistance, plunder them of any tech that might even remotely help them pull themselves headfirst out of the poverty they lived in, and then leave. Not exactly ethical.

In any case, I thought the player simply being allowed to walk into the Hidden Valley bunker (without Veronica) was a bit silly; Mariposa just seems hard to justify, especially since the Brotherhood is in a state of war with the NCR and would likely be on maximum alert.

@Rusina-If the Brotherhood had actively recruited (i.e. gone out into the wasteland and established themselves as a government/power, or even just recruited soldiers before moving on) they would have certainly been a force to be reckoned with. However, as said, their doctrinal beliefs prevent them from doing this kind of recruiting. Change the doctrine to allow even that provision, and they would be a far stronger force in post-Great War America than they currently are.

The problem is, they don't want to help (and I see the Followers and NCR already doing that, why do we need another goody two shoes faction?) or govern the outsiders. Their mission is to keep technology to themselves locked away from the outsiders. It's like the Enclave would someday decide to start creating more mutants. The brotherhood has a mission and if some members don't like it, they are free to leave.

Btw, it's Lost Hills, not Mariposa.

Ah, right, sorry, misremembered.

In any case, my point is exactly that; the Brotherhood is unable to do what they need to to survive because their doctrine prohibits it. Were their doctrine to be different, they would be a force to be reckoned with, but since it isn't they are dying away.

Why would the Brotherhood have to survive if they are to change their doctrine anyway. It would be easier for them to say "Screw you guys, we are joining the Followers/NCR."

The BoS would continue to operate as a coherent organization even after a significant doctrinal change simply because after 200 years of autonomy, I don't think they're about to start taking orders from other people.

Besides, the only thing they would really have to change is recruiting; they could continue the whole "taking your technology" policy.

Hate to get off the BoS conversaton here guys but maybe Dogmeat as the recurring personality?

I so hope not.
That damn dog needs to die a horrible.. HORRIBLE death. (Shouldn't he have died in FO1? I think that Vault Dweller memoirs said so.)

The dogmeant in Fallout 3 is not the dogmeat from fallout i doubt a dog besides rex could live that long and the devs explained fallout 3's Dogmeat was a descendent of the original.
The original dogmeat died when he ran into a enclace forceshield and died a horrible death just as you said,

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/5469/deathglare3.jpg

Why does everyone assume Fallout 4 will be commonwealth? We don't even know who is making it.

Yes! Mr. Burke!
I would LOVE him to come back LOVE it!

This is just a wild guess, but maybe...Bethesda? :poke:

Commonwealth would be the most likely location considering the numerous references to it in FO 3...of course Bethesda could surprise us all and make it somewhere nobody has considered.

Hmm yes, there are heavy references to Arizona but we don't know if Fallout 4 will be set there.

It wasn't Enclave, it was in Mariposa while the Vault Dweller was destroying the vats. It makes little sense for Dogmeat in Fallout 3 to be a descendant of the original, but I guess Dogmeat fathered puppies and the puppies spread across the country. The name followed too somehow...