Creation Kit and DLC. Free vs $12.99 : V - Skyrim

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:49 am

I know it is. Because Sony and Microsoft want money. I understand that. I just feel like they can come up with a system to get community created mods out there to those who want it. It sounds like a stretch but didn't the telephone when it was first thought of? Alot of ideas seems too hard to control until someone comes up with a way to control it. It just takes time and enough people to get behind it. I'm sure there is a way to do something similar to my idea. I'm sure it won't be free either, but if I only had to pay a one time payment of 1200 microsoft points to get access to mods then sign me up. And it isn't like the mods go straight from the creator to the public.

Rockband already uses a system like this now that I think of it. They have Rock Band Network songs and then songs made by the RB staff.

Do you have to pay to play online? Do you have to pay for creation kits? Do you have to pay for mods?

I am throwing stones at microsoft because they don't care about anything but money. I remember back when Halo 2 dlc came out. It was expensive but if you waited long enough it was free eventually. Now a days a game can be old and outdated but the DLC is still 1200 microsoft points.

Did you honestly just compare an idea to avoid paying money for DLC to the invention of the telephone?

Bad news: when you got the console version of this game, the only caveat was that you would not get access to mods or the Creation Kit. That's been the same for every ES game. It's not just because of the cross-platform mechanics (which are another serious consideration), but, as pointed out here, it's because of licensing issues that you will not get Microsoft or Sony to relax. PC users are going to pay the same amount for the DLC when it's available.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:00 pm

Bethesda can't just do whatever they want; they have to pay to be licensed to make software for the 360 and Playstation 3. Realize that Microsoft and Sony aren't making boatloads of money off the consoles themselves, they're making most of their money off the games they license. In fact, I remember back in the day of the original XBox and the Playstation 2, there was speculation that Microsoft and Sony were actually selling the consoles a little below cost and taking a hit on every machine, just to get more people using their machine and buying their games.

They do at least in the beginning, today they are sold with profit.
Part of the reason is not only to sell more game but to increase console lifespan, if they make it more powerful and expensive than people are willing to pay in the beginning it will last longer ending up saving money in the long run.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:13 pm

They do at least in the beginning, today they are sold with profit.
Part of the reason is not only to sell more game but to increase console lifespan, if they make it more powerful and expensive than people are willing to pay in the beginning it will last longer ending up saving money in the long run.

It's also why they're so reluctant to start that cycle all over again with a new generation.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:52 am

It would be cool if we could pay for some mods but I don't see it happening :/

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:26 pm

It would be cool if we could pay for some mods but I don't see it happening :/

You mean pay for mods on a console? Or pay for mods in general?
If you mean the latter it would be as easy as modders setting up donation link, game modders on ModDB do it all the time.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:07 pm

Basically... a creation kit for consol users??? Yeah it was primative but still atleast we got it! It was so fun making stuff! And it two worlds the first you could basically create extremely primative houses and stuff.

I like this idea of a forge like, creation kit for us consol gamers.

And then we could come to the forums like for halo, see what other consol gamers have made, and download it to the xbox! Or something similar. Cause I am not good at editing like some people and I know within a day someone would have some awesome creations.

So I change my possible theory from mods to a creation kit/forge idea for skyrim!

What do you guys think on that? I give props to you Ayurvha and Gram for the great ideas.

A basic editor wouldn't be hard to get into skyrim would it?

Do you have any idea how complicated the Creation Kit is? Modding is a lot more than just plopping some stuff onto a blank world like in Halo's Forge Mode. There's scripting with an actual programming language necessary to do much beyond simple dungeons and items. Any dungeon of considerable size needs roombounds and portals set up to determine what renders and what doesn't to optimize performance (which would be especially necessary on consoles, which tend to be weaker than PCs), and I can't imagine trying to set those up on a clumsy controller. Can you imagine trying to adjust Navmesh on a console? It would be hell. Really, the Creation Kit is so much more than a simple level editor, and it has to be to work with Skyrim's intense complexity.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:10 am

PC gaming is dead? I point to the poll above that has PC voted as the desired platform for Skyrim. I also point to the many games that PC has that are a huge success over any thing the consoles can claim to have. A bias opinion is just that, a bias opinion.

Also as a FYI modding, is the soul reason PC gaming is still alive and doing well

I should have used irony tags.

Also I just noticed that OP basically says "If I can't have it, no one should" .......

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:05 am

The problem is that Sony and Microsoft insist that they get to veto mods on their machines. Not sure why, but they're the ones controlling the situation.

This. I'm pretty sure Bethesda asked Sony and Microsoft for permission to allow mod sharing on consoles, but there's just no way they would accept. As you said, they're charging money for dlc and yet people are getting mods for free. It's bad for business. I'm glad that there are some games that are easily to modify so we can mold the game we bought into our own, or better yet, share our creations with others to help make these games the best they can be.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:52 pm

How much money do you even make to even say $400 is cheap?

I make about 4-500 a month. After bills, I can save up $400 in about 2-3 months. I work part time, about 10-15 hours a week at a rate of $8.54 an hour.

To put into console terms, a low end gaming PC costs about 6-7 games.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:48 pm

I had an idea that to me sounds awesome: Putting the mods people create on Xbox Live and PSN for us to download! I don't know exactly how it would work or if the consols could handle every mod. But I'm sure the staff can pick ones that the consols could handle.

Great idea! Amazing that no one has brought this up yet in the last few years! :goodjob:

Sarcasm aside: Free DLC? Unless it's part of a promotion campain that will attract tons of new buyers they're not going to invest any time and money on development and distribution just to hand it over for free. And Skyrim being a popular game makes it even less likely that they will make free DLC's, people will buy it anyway.

The Creation Kit is free for exactly the above reason: a lot of people buy the PC version simply for the mods. If there was no CK announced I probably wouldn't have bought Skyrim instantly. The CK really is a powerful marketing tool.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:03 am

There's two things you have to remember about PC prices.

Games are cheap, at one point you could get the entire TES series on there (including Skyrim) for $49, or just Skyrim for $30 while the console version were $60. Plus tons of F2P games. This adds up over time and depending where you live can save you money compared to consoles.
If you are a student you're going to need a PC anyway, just throw in a $200 graphics card instead of getting an Xbox/PS3 and then grab an education tax rebate. I got a $750 rebate from my high-end rig just a year ago, and it maxes out Skyrim. You'll have to check your government policies though, and if you meet the requirements.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:13 am

Yeah but Bethesda can just use them as "updates".

I don't see how it hurts anyone since it's a 1 person game. It's not Halo 2 where you run super fast shooting scarabs out of a lightsaber. Lol

If bethesda released it as free dlc then would it still be a mod? I mean what constitutes something as a mod? Because it wasn't originally in the game? Or it was created by someone other than the creators?

As far as I know updates have to be ok'ed by the platform makers.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:47 pm

It's been discussed, and it's not happening.

Microsoft and Sony don't allow user customisation.
What happens when mods conflict? Load order? Console users won't have access to external tools we have.
What happens when a mod breaks a save, or you want to remove some?
Access to INI files and the actual file system, which is essential for modding, isn't allowed on consoles.
Microsoft charge $40,000 to host and distribute one patch. They're not going to host mods for free.
If Bethesda paid to have mods hosted, then the mods couldn't be free. Would the author get a cut of the profit too?
How would Bethesda choose what mods to host without showing favouritism?
The consoles are literally taking the max they can with Skryim as it is. Adding graphical mods or ones which add more NPCs would grind the system to a halt.
What happens when a mod goes wrong? Who's to blame? Microsoft? Bethesda?

Just some of the many reasons it'll never happen, as nice as it would be. Sorry.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:01 am

As far as I know updates have to be ok'ed by the platform makers.

Yep, they go through extensive testing. According to Tim Schafer console game patches cost up to $40,000 per patch.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:06 pm

How much money do you even make to even say $400 is cheap?

$400 is equivalent to about 54 hours of work at minimum wage.
It's equivalent to a week of vacation pay for me.
it's less than a 24-pack of Coca-Cola every week for a year.
it's about what I paid for 4 nights in a hotel in a Toronto suburb. The same room in downtown would've been closer to $600.
$400 is less than a payment on a nice new vehicle on a 5 year loan.
It is 10 months of my cell phone bill, or 4 months of many of my coworkers.

$400 is about the pre-tax weekly income of someone earning $21K/yr. Is that a lot or not?

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:08 pm

As a person who has it on both console and pc my only concern is how would you run some of the script extenders that most of the better mods require without blowing up your console dont know if that was addressed or not so if that's not the case or it was my bad lol. that aside would it be cool if console players had access to mods imo hell yea their are a few mods i would love to have on my xbox version of skyrim but i just dont see it being feasible with the current generation of consoles maybe in the future but not right now.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:40 pm

Just give the consoles the same substantial DLC and I will be fine.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:01 pm

Just give the consoles the same substantial DLC and I will be fine.

This

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:54 am

As a person who has it on both console and pc my only concern is how would you run some of the script extenders that most of the better mods require without blowing up your console dont know if that was addressed or not so if that's not the case or it was my bad lol. that aside would it be cool if console players had access to mods imo hell yea their are a few mods i would love to have on my xbox version of skyrim but i just dont see it being feasible with the current generation of consoles maybe in the future but not right now.

A console is just a PC with with lesser hardware, does your PC blow up from mods? Sure the consoles can't run the PC version of the script extenders, but if modding came to console, people would make console capable mods. That's a silly argument against console modding and is not the reason there are no mods on consoles.
The actual reason has been stated many many times, and I don't feel like explaining it again.
Keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you, just quoting this post so people will know what I'm talking about. I just wanted to set something straight.

A Bethesda employee has already came on here and told us they really wish they could provide modding for consoles, it's just not happening for quite some time.
Sorry, them's the breaks.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:09 am

A console is just a PC with with lesser hardware, does your PC blow up from mods? Sure the consoles can't run the PC version of the script extenders, but if modding came to console, people would make console capable mods. That's a silly argument against console modding and is not the reason there are no mods on consoles.
The actual reason has been stated many many times, and I don't feel like explaining it again.
Keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you, just quoting this post so people will know what I'm talking about. I just wanted to set something straight.

A Bethesda employee has already came on here and told us they really wish they could provide modding for consoles, it's just not happening for quite some time.
Sorry, them's the breaks.

no offence taken just a poor example on my part im all for console modding i just dont see it being feasible till integration between consoles and PC's become better that and you would have to get the console makers on board.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:22 pm

Isn't the whole point of buying this game for a console to save money on building a PC? It's understood that the PC version has better graphics and modding capabilities, the game was designed with those in mind.

However, not everyone has a PC that can play this game, so there are also console versions. It's a trade off. You can't expect consoles to do everything PCs can do, or we wouldn't have a market for consoles in the first place.

EDIT to head off the attack I can see coming:
I'm not saying that consoles don't have the power to run any mods whatsoever. There are console games with mods.

However, consoles are guaranteed platforms. People buy them because they know that games for them will run. User created content is a huge unknown, so it makes sense for Microsoft and Sony to be hesitant.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:34 am

Isn't the whole point of buying this game for a console to save money on building a PC?

A console player does not just need to purchase a console, they also need to own a television as well. Like it or not, since one cannot play on a console without buying a television, the television has to be considered part of the cost of playing on a console. Consider it a 'hidden cost.'

This brings the cost of playing on a console higher. Whether one still saves maoney by playing on a console depends on the prices of the console, the TV and the PC.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:45 pm

A console player does not just need to purchase a console, they also need to own a television as well. Like it or not, since one cannot play on a console without buying a television, the television has to be considered part of the cost of playing on a console. Consider it a 'hidden cost.'

This brings the cost of playing on a console higher. Whether one still saves maoney by playing on a console depends on the prices of the console, the TV and the PC.

I disagree with this, only because most people have their TV before they buy a console. People have tv's for other reasons, not related to consoles at all.
People also have computers for other reasons, such as work, but those computers usually can't run video games. My laptop, for example.

However, anyone's TV can run a video game, if they get a console.

Thus:
If you have a basic TV and a basic computer for working (like most people), the cheapest way to play Skyrim is console.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:04 pm

People also have computers for other reasons, such as work, but those computers usually can't run video games. My laptop, for example.

You should have said "but those computers usually can't run some of the newer video games". I promise you that your laptop can run video games. A lot more video games than the consoles can. Might not be able to run Skyrim but it can run thousand and thousands of other games. A windows 98 machine can still run more games than any of the consoles can.

In a couple of weeks you will be able to buy a $35 dollar PC that can play more games than the consoles can. Wont play Skyrim but it will certainly play video games.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:17 pm

A console is just a PC with with lesser hardware, does your PC blow up from mods? Sure the consoles can't run the PC version of the script extenders, but if modding came to console, people would make console capable mods. That's a silly argument against console modding and is not the reason there are no mods on consoles.
The actual reason has been stated many many times, and I don't feel like explaining it again.
Keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you, just quoting this post so people will know what I'm talking about. I just wanted to set something straight.

A Bethesda employee has already came on here and told us they really wish they could provide modding for consoles, it's just not happening for quite some time.
Sorry, them's the breaks.

Basically this^. There is hard ware for consoles out there that allows the use and creation of mods but it's exclusive to companies, i.e. Micro. Sony and game creators.( and even that list in small) If you have ever noticed that when ever a company Like Beth. or whomever are on the road showing what ever new game they have created it's usually shown on a console and not a computer.They have a "special" console that has said program( I cannot say without getten in lots of trouble here.) and it's used for demonstration, so I'm not to sure on it's specs.But the Tech. is out there and it's only a matter of time before us console players will have acess to this Tech. And as far as paying for my DLC, I cannot deny that I'm a good little sheep and will line up with my money to buy.