Creation Kit and DLC. Free vs $12.99 : V - Skyrim

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:00 pm

The problem is that the Halo tool is not a modding toolset. It simply lets you manipulate objects in worlds that are already made. The code, tools, power, processing and so on to make mods is not possible by consoles. This is not to say that they couldn't play them, but you could not make a mod for skyrim on a console. It requires a 3rd party program to make half the stuff you are talking about, and a program that runs outside of the game to even make the mods. Do you know what it takes to make and add a simple sword to the game? Look up blender or 3dsmax. That stuff is not possible on a console.

Then for a good majority of the mods worth having you need a script extender. Something else not possible for consoles to do. You can homebrew consoles, and you will get banned if you are caught, thats not modding though. PC's have always had mods, that is why PC's have been considered the better gaming platform because there is more you can do on them. You bought a console to play games, and I'm sorry you can't play mods but that is just something you have to accept. No reason to start yet another thread on something that has already been talked to death about, and that isn't possible anyways for many reasons.

P.S. this isn't a PC's are better post, its a, accept the facts post. I don't buy a honda and cry about how its not a truck and its not fair that I don't have 4wd. Its a fact I knew going into it, and something I just have to accept.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:15 pm

Is that all it would take? Bethesda playtesting each and every mod, alone and in combination with each other? Come on, you know that isn't feasible.

Agreed. But Bethesda could select a just a few of the better mods, pay the modders for a license, port the mods to PS3 and Xbox, test these for bugs, conflicts, etc. and take them through the Sony and Microsoft certification process and sell them as DLC for a profit. I would pay good money to get some of the better Oblivion mods like OOO on a PS3 or Xbox. Bet others would too.

Bethesda makes such good games, but the modders seem to do a better job of putting the icing on the cake. I don't expect to get any of that for free on a PS3 or Xbox, but I would be willing to pay for it.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:35 pm

Microsoft and Sony do not want mods on their systems probably they would jot be able to profit from them. Man I cannot wait to get a good gaming PC and get away from TES on console.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:51 pm

Not really no.. of course most likely you and everyone else who believes the same most likely bought an overpriced PC from a major department store retailer such as best buy and Wal-mart in the short term yes it does seem quite cheap in the long run when you add things like steam with its sales and similar networks and the majority of games selling for less and lasting longer in replay ability and longevity due to mods and due to having actual communities for such see LoL, MMO's, Battleifeld, CS, Minecraft, etc and take in the fact in only a few years your going to need to buy a new console for $500-600 anyways. The only valid point to console is that it is easy and simple that's, all money doesn't play that much of a huge factor in it because of after purchase cost add on's especially if you want to play online for a xbox requiring a subscription.

Where is the best place to buy a top of the line rig, I am asking because I have no clue how to build one, I was thinking about best buy, but I have seen a lot about they do not have the best gaming rigs.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:48 pm

Oh, and... Huh? You really think Bethesda actually made any content or wrote any code on consoles? Everything was made on the PC and then 'ported' to consoles. The devkit consoles developers usually get have some debug features, but that's it - The creation kit was made for the PC and PC only because it was never meant to be used on consoles at all.

Bethesda has some tools to port mods to consoles yes, but the CK itself can never be used on them. For the rest, read my post further above this one - You won't be seeing user mods on consoles, ever.

And ported not too well in the case of the PS3, I might add. Just check out the PS3 forum. Those guys are still ablaze over lag, freezes, etc. I put an SSD in mine and have not had any problems but others have not been so lucky.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:02 am

I have to hand it to consolers for expecting and constantly calling for the impossible.

If they understood exactly what the CK does and is needed to be used they would then understand why this thing can ONLY work on a PC and not a console.

There are just some things in life that are not going to happen because consoles simply do not have the requirements. You not only need the computing requirements, but a mouse and a keyboard, these are ESSENTIAL. And, No, the gamepad (even a Microsoft Xbox one) will not make up for the board and mouse.

We keep telling them, but they won`t believe us.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:48 pm

I have to hand it to consolers for expecting and constantly calling for the impossible.

If they understood exactly what the CK does and is needed to be used they would then understand why this thing can ONLY work on a PC and not a console.

There are just some things in life that are not going to happen because consoles simply do not have the requirements. You not only need the computing requirements, but a mouse and a keyboard, these are ESSENTIAL. And, No, the gamepad (even a Microsoft Xbox one) will not make up for the board and mouse.

We keep telling them, but they won`t believe us.

Well you know us console players are not really all that sophisticated when it comes to computers. That's why we use consoles.

Doesn't mean we are not serious roleplayers though. The other day I posted that there should be an option in the Options menu allowing you to toggle off the auto health regen and some PC player told me to just change it in the ini file. I have no idea what an ini file is, much less where to find it or how to go about editing it. Honestly, I'd be happy if they just gave us console players a few more options in the options menu to customize the game. Simple things like being to turn off the sneak crosshair and compass and maybe a few more difficulty sliders to fine tune the game a little.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:11 am

For a start the CK requires windows right?

If they added that to an console you might aswell just call it a PC with a an xbox controller.

Edit:
@Turija - Using Facebook is more complicated than editing an ini file :wink_smile:

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:21 pm

Is this thread still going? really? :dry:

A few things:
- PC players have to pay for the DLC just as well. And: the xbox gets them first.
- No CK that does anything useful in this engine could run on the archaic and limited console hardware.
- Sony and Microsoft have pretty much forbidden user made mods on their proprietary platforms.
- The consoles would run into serious frame-rate issues on many (most) mods.
- The CK is not some severely limited and simplistic tool like Halo's forge. Nor can it be without a total engine overhaul.

Also, and this is very important: if Beth would have to distribute the mods themselves (which they would have to on consoles, since there is no 3rd party distribution service available on those platforms) they would have to give customer support for those mods. Giving support requires funds, hence: it could not be a "free" service. And also: giving support for a mod would require Bethesda to "take over" support/development of a particular mod, hence becoming the author of what's previously someone else's work.
Besides the customer support issue, on consoles there's no possibility (exterior programs) to deal with load order issues, compatibility issues, merge issues, etc, etc. On PC Bethesda relies on third party solutions and third party support to solve those. On the consoles Beth would have to solve and support those themselves, which again requires additional development funds. Hence, again, it could not be a "free" service.

In all: No. It won't happen. And you should have bloody well known this yourself. It's always been this way with Bethesda's Elder Scrolls and Fallout games, for good reasons.

If you want mods get Bethesda's games for PC. Same as with any other game franchise out there that gets mods. (<- exceptions to this can be counted on one hand)

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:11 pm

Well you know us console players are not really all that sophisticated when it comes to computers. That's why we use consoles.

Doesn't mean we are not serious roleplayers though. The other day I posted that there should be an option in the Options menu allowing you to toggle off the auto health regen and some PC player told me to just change it in the ini file. I have no idea what an ini file is, much less where to find it or how to go about editing it. Honestly, I'd be happy if they just gave us console players a few more options in the options menu to customize the game. Simple things like being to turn off the sneak crosshair and compass and maybe a few more difficulty sliders to fine tune the game a little.

The problem here is with the decision thinking of Bethesda Dev management and publishers. I totally agree with you that they could`ve and should`ve added an option to enable these things for consolers, but they didn`t. Why? Well, I don`t really know, but Games Devs have this mentality that console players don`t want or need these options. They just don`t care when it comes to consoles. Were I a console publisher I`d make sure as many possible options were included in consoles so the mature Player wasn`t always treated like he was too stupid for options.

There is NO reason at all why a turn off crosshairs or anything else isn`t in console versions except they`re lazy and\or think consolers are too stupid to handle it. Either way it`s an insult really. they must have known that sooner or later consolers would notice that PC users were getting extra options. And not all Console users are 12 years old, many of them are well into advlt age. The Ck isn`t possible but those options are.

But that`s how it is and one reason why I have no interest to using consoles unless it`s fot a Beat-em-up which is about the only game type not made for PCs (for some weird reason - Dev\publisher mentality again) .

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:57 pm

The problem here is with the decision thinking of Bethesda Dev management and publishers. I totally agree with you that they could`ve and should`ve added an option to enable these things for consolers, but they didn`t. Why? Well, I don`t really know, but Games Devs have this mentality that console players don`t want or need these options. They just don`t care when it comes to consoles. Were I a console publisher I`d make sure as many possible options were included in consoles so the mature Player wasn`t always treated like he was too stupid for options.

There is NO reason at all why a turn off crosshairs or anything else isn`t in console versions except they`re lazy and\or think consolers are too stupid to handle it. Either way it`s an insult really. they must have known that sooner or later consolers would notice that PC users were getting extra options. And not all Console users are 12 years old, many of them are well into advlt age. The Ck isn`t possible but those options are.

But that`s how it is and one reason why I have no interest to using consoles unless it`s fot a Beat-em-up which is about the only game type not made for PCs (for some weird reason - Dev\publisher mentality again) .

It's not really an "option" on PC either unless you're willing to edit the game's .ini files. Personally I don't mind tweaking the .ini files. But (I believe) the vast majority of PC players will not bother with those either.

Tweaking those things should be in a menu: for all platforms.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:02 pm

From reading everything...

Who in their right mind think the Construction Set (I'm calling it that) will work on consoles? That is by far never going to happen because the requirements and everything else. I may have Skyrim for the Xbox but I still have Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind for the PC. Actually, I have Morrowind's Construction Set open right now.

Now, it is possible to host Player-Made-Mods on something for Xbox/PS users but it would cost money and Sony/Microsoft has to allow it which isn't going to be easy since they are prolly just two companies that only cared for $$$$ and not for their customers. Before someone says something like "Aren't all companies like that?" I'ma just say the answer. No. Bethesda is a good example. They normally give us the Construction Set Free and we pretty much make the game ourselves. Seriously, if a team of the right modders get together, they can turn Skyrim into Elder Scrolls V: Tamriel and it'll all be free. That is something we should thank Bethesda for. As for doing this type of stuff on consoles, blame that on Microsoft and Sony. They are the real problem.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:04 pm

Oh please. Get a computer. You have no idea how much damage consoles have done to video games.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:37 am

Oh please. Get a computer. You have no idea how much damage consoles have done to video games.

Gotta remember, the majority of people in our ****hole economy isn't rich enough to get a fast computer like that every 1-2 years.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:19 pm

Gotta remember, the majority of people in our ****hole economy isn't rich enough to get a fast computer like that every 1-2 years.

I get so tired of people parroting that exaggeration.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:26 am

I get so tired of people parroting that exaggeration.

It's true. Specially where I live. I know no one in-real-life that is rich enough to even consider buying a new laptop/computer.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:06 pm

Wait so all those games I played in Halo 2 where the jerk off was shooting tanks out of his gun weren't mods? Or those maps that were tweaked a bit? And then they got the banhammer for "MODDING"?

Yeah, those are mods. But how is that relevant? I said most mods, and to further that, most mods that are worth the time and effort to put into a marketable product would not be anywhere close to that lack of quality. Besides the mods from halo 2 are of a completely different variety than what is made with Skyrim. Besides how stable were those mods in the first place?

Eventually a new xbox will be on the market, as well as a new ps. With that comes upgrades that will handle things that MS and Sony see that the consol gamers want. And if we want to be able to mod, then we will eventually get it. Look at phones. Apple had apps (first? idk) and then created a whole new generation for phones, all which now HAVE to have apps because that is what is popular.

Lol no you will not get what you want if the companies make no money off it. Especially if said company has to worry about security concerns like a mod being packaged incorrectly and it essentially messesup your game or console. They will also have to house servers to host the websites you would download the mods from. That takes money. So maybe is the best you will get but what I was saying was this generation of consoles will never get the Ck and it is VERY unlikely that the consoles will get mods.

And I'm WAY past the mod point for those of you who have failed to read and keep up. I'm looking into a sort of 'forge' like kit for skyrim such like Halo. I know several games for the xbox had designable maps that you could create such as Time Splitters and that game didn't seem very popular.

How will that work? If you add to much worldspace to the game your game will crash and how would you fix the damage that was done. How would safety be ensured? Sure maybe you could make small changes. But that would require a lot of effort on the devs part for very little return. Especially since most people are satisfied with things the way they are.

I know it seems hard to envision Consol gamers having mods, but you PC guys are going to have to get over it. If enough people want it, MS and Sony are gonna find a way to tap into the market.

Again what market? You are saying you want mods that PC players make for free. There is all kinds of hoops and trouble that people would have to go through to get those. What if a mod author makes something you want but won't release it for consoles. You are SOL again. Do me a favor and stop calling us you PC guys like we are some separate entity. It is not like we don't want you to be able to use the stuff we are using. We are just telling you why its not going to happen, we are sick of hearing you asking about mods for consoles. It just cannot happen, yet.

Sorry, but you guys always talk down on consol gamers for some reason and talk about how all we do is whine. Grow up. Consol gamers are just sick and tired of seeing you PC guys getting tons of cool mods for free and we have to pay for DLC that may or may not be any good. If your mod svcks what do you do? Delete it. If DLC svcks we can delete it but we cannot get our money back. And then there comes a point when there are 5 DLCs out on the market at 12.99... thats 64.95. And that's if MS keeps it at the 1200 point range. (I think 1200 MP = $12.99)

We do? Like every single one of us? Kind of stereotyping there aren't you? We get tons of cool mods for free because the PC users MAKE them. Why should you get them if the makers do not want you to? It is not that they don't but why should you? You have quite the sense of entitlement there. Btw I am a console AND PC gamer. I have only been into PC's for about a year and a half. Yeah, DLC being expensive svcks. But PC users pay for them same as you. If they svck we do not get a reimbursemant. Grow up.

You want better service you need to pay more, in terms of money AND skill. PC gaming is more complicated than console gaming. Mods and better graphics are the advantages with that. Our mods also need to be carefully managed and can cause issues like corrupting our entire game. It is a risk reward system. If you download a mod you have to trust the mod to do as advertised. If something is wrong, it can be a real pain in the ass to fix it. So if a mod svcks we do not JUST delete it. We have to locate what is causing the problem. Then figure out which mod is doing that. Then we need to use a mod manager to delete it or manually do it. It can get very complicated for some mods that do a lot of different things. Some mods can even complicate matters because they conflict with one another. It is not as easy as you seem to think. Educate yourself before you speak on a subject please.

This is not a consol war thread. Do not talk about it. I'm not here to start an arguement or to hurt anyones feelings. Get into reality for a minute and realize that we are living in a time where with a little knowledge, money, and time anything is possible. I cannot believe some of you are stuck on the fact that it wouldn't be possible for consol gamers to see some sort of Creation Kit that obviously wouldn't be as advanced as the PC version. And obviously it will happen one day because they are thinking about it. They are working out the details and it will be a reality.

You should watch your tone then, when you are typing. You came off kind of offensive and with little evidence for your point. We are not stuck on the fact that you cannot have mods for the consoles. We are saying it is just something that is unlikely to happen. People do things for a reason. Not just to make you happy. If Sony and Microsoft can somehow see a way to make money off bringing mods or limited creation kits to the consoles then sure they will. What we are saying is that it is very unlikely. If it is a reality that is fantastic. You just seem to not understand what is required for all these things to work.

Now please get on topic with the possibility of a Small creation kit like idea for consols. A sort of forge, if you will. Two worlds two let you put up walls and stuff. Other games have let you tap into consol commands. Get on topic or don't post. I hate wasting my time reading about your opinions on the pc vs consol crap.

Dude, this is the Internet. Do not try to censor people. It will not work. And you have no right to do it. Now this idea of a limited creation kit IS more reasonable. What exactly would the limited creation kit do though? If I may inquire?

=p
Anyways I don't care about what processors I can buy, I DO NOT CARE. I want to talk about the possibilty of getting some easy, non consol melting abilities like you can do with halo and forge.

That was not directed towards you. It was to Jusey1. I was offering them some information.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:12 pm

Yep the only course of action is to mod your box,then if your savvy enough find the guys out there who are actually modding on the consoles,trust me their out there and a few soccer games have been modded but thats simple stuff,i don't know if skyrim has been done but those guys would know but then i don't know them as i only know one guy who's into it and he don't talk [censored] about that to me.

What he's done with his box would blow you away.

Essentially it's a 3.2 ghz 3core 512 mb ram computer powered by an ati gpu,the best of 2004 technology had to offer.Seven years on it's considered a generation behind of current tech,if you look at it on a core generations perspective of size and power,it's 5 generations old quite possibly 500 hundred years old(feel free to correct me) i'm looking at it from a core perspective,a 2007 core2 2.3ghz 2core with three 8800gt's can blow it out the window,a 2010 intel i3 stock is a giant compared to the consoles and a machine of this years generational release would if it could try and insert it into it's dock thinking it was a phone.I know that for each year MS has tweaked their new boxs being sold but how many people go out and buy a new box each year?(if you do theres a help group somewhere out there)

Sony and Ms have their 10 year plan and the next generation is 2014.One thing we must realise is that when that happens and you go and rush out and buy it it's tech would be 2012-2013 not 2014 technology,Hell could be this years tech it's based on,i don't know.

That's how i look at the consoles from my perspective at this time and year,feel free to correct me if anything is askew as i didn't spend 12 hrs researching this but i'm sure it's close.

It's not knocking the console owners,it's fragging the technology they the companies have enforced you to use and keep using.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:58 am

Exactly. No argument for why it would be made for consoles exists that cannot be nullified by logic.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:57 am

I build my computers to last three years. This one is 15 months old and sports a pair of GTX 460s. I had one for a long time. I love my video games. I have a huge, for a CRT, Sony with a Super High Pitch HD semi pro tube. I bought that some years ago in NY NY and had it shipped to BC Canada as it was one of the last ones left.

Go ahead cheap out and run yer 720P consoles onto your horrible LCD HD TVs. You have no idea what you are missing.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:12 pm

I build my computers to last three years. This one is 15 months old and sports a pair of GTX 460s. I had one for a long time. I love my video games. I have a huge, for a CRT, Sony with a Super High Pitch HD semi pro tube. I bought that some years ago in NY NY and had it shipped to BC Canada as it was one of the last ones left.

Go ahead cheap out and run yer 720P consoles onto your horrible LCD HD TVs. You have no idea what you are missing.

You seriously have no idea what it is like for the poor people.. You make me sick.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:23 pm

You seriously have no idea what it is like for the poor people.. You make me sick.

what is your definition of poor? If you are poor gaming in general shouldn't be in your concern anyways.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:38 pm

what is your definition of poor? If you are poor gaming in general shouldn't be in your concern anyways.

I'm not totally poor, so to say, but I am poor enough that I barely get ONE new video game a-year. Let alone a whole laptop/computer.

Actually, I wouldn't have my Xbox 360 right now if it wasn't for luck... My father manage to get onto a Game Show and won like $4,900. That is why I have my Xbox 360 right now... Thx God for that Luck...

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:25 pm

You seriously have no idea what it is like for the poor people.. You make me sick.

Well while that guy may have been a true dike(PC elitists piss off more PC users than console users, trust me, though I am not sure if he is one :shrug:

) it is perfectly affordable to find a good PC if you are replacing the spending of money on a console and games with a PC and games. You just need to research the parts and you will be amazed at what you will find. In this day an age everyone needs a computer though. Not a console. It IS difficult to afford a console yet alone a gaming PC. But for nearly the same price(+ or - $100-200) you could be gaming on a much much more powerful platform. You just need to budget correctly. Steam sales alone will make the PC version a better buy very quickly due to money saved on games. You can routinely get AMAZING deals on Steam. I got an entire series of one of the best strategy series(total war) for like $20 on a steam sale. That is 6 or 7 very good games with lots of playtime. I also got Fallout 3 for cheap on a christmas Steam sale for like $15 or something with all DLC included. The cost of a gaming PC being over the top expensive is a myth if you know what you are doing.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:30 am

It's true. Specially where I live. I know no one in-real-life that is rich enough to even consider buying a new laptop/computer.

Give me a break. You do NOT need to buy a new one every year or two. Maybe if you want to stay on top, but other then that there is absolutely no need to buy one that often. I never have and I game on PCs exclusively.