Which is the entire point.
They willingly broke the lore for the sake of implementing known clichés. It's something to be concerned about when Bethesda somehow fails to recognize the value of their own original idea and instead opts for something that's proven to be successful. Sounds more like a marketing decision than an "artistic" one.

The first vampire was created by apollo, and he damned the guy to burn up if he ever was in the sunlight again, goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay farther back than a damned tv show / movie, all the way back to greek mythology

http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/history-of-vampires.html

thats the whole story.

Actually i believe the Hebrew Bible (Name check) tells of Lilith: The 1st Vampire who was cast from Eden because she wanted to be equal to adam but god said "Woman are less than man" and replaced her with Eve who was willing to do all the kinky stuff adam wanted

If you can give me a source, ill b e more inclined to believe it. What I wrote comes from the Scriptures of Delphi. And secondly, the Torah is not as old as ancient greece.

Look up the Hebrew Bible (Still not sure of the name) and Lilith

Cant be bothered, its 140 in the morning for me. Maybe some other time. Regardless though, vampires + sunlight = bad juju. End of story.

I think you're being too generous. I'd hardly call the story decent when it literally requires you to turn off your brain to stomach playing through.

I liked it, i just didnt like the In-Game stuff based around it. The STORY was fine and could have been improved JUST by making the Volkihar fit the lore

I loved the DLC, i dunno what everyone else is on about, but it had more character to it than the entirety of vanilla skyrims MQ, and Harkon makes Alduin look like a fluffy bunny.

Technically speaking, it's almost impossible for anything to be truely original anymore, because one or more aspects can somewhat be compared to things done in the past. For example, one can easily state that certain aspects of any fantasy game were all "ripped off" from Tolkien. That doesn't mean anything, though. It's impossible to create a Vampire story where certain parts of it DON'T seem similar to those of movies/books/etc, because so many different variations have been told/done.

As for the Vampire Lord, it does look very much like Marcus from Underworld. Regardless, I love how it looks, and I think vsions (Hi, btw. I see you lurking!) did a very good job on it, as well as the female version. I'm glad you kept the female one's ugliness intact.

Who cares?

It's funny you mention that actually, some of the most popular mods in Oblivion dealt with vampires. So thank you for bringing up a very good point. People whine and complain when Bethesda does not listen to the demands or requests of the fans for content of certain types, but when they finally do everyone whines and complains that it wasn't done the way they wanted, or it wasn't original. Bethesda listened to the fans here. People complained about the vampires and how it kind of svcks to be one, so they gave us an entire DLC that revolves around making vampires pretty damn awesome.


Yeah, but the bonuses as a vampire in that game were ridiculous. Constant sun damage, but massive boosts to magicka, strength, will, endurance and health. And the longer you went without feeding the stronger you became. I would easily opt for a Morrowind vampire system to replace the Skyrim system, illusion spells counteract the whole aggression factor.

Sorry, that kind of went off topic.

No, it wasn't. Imagine playing a character dedicated to destroying the Undead. Why in the name of all that's holy would you do ANYTHING to assist one? The only reason I'd consider plausible is a temporary alliance to deal with a greater threat, but you do NOT get to learn about that greater threat until AFTER you rescue a vamp and help her deliver a powerful artifact to the enemy. I'd like to know what the writers were smoking.

Oh i hate Serana and everything related to her, but that isnt the plot. The story is the Vampire Prophecy and the Elder Scrolls. Serana is just a badly cast actor in the play of Old-School Vamp theatre

If you notice DG is a cluster of vampire centric stuff stolen from other media sources.

Wonderful. Another thread based on lack of originality.

Taking patents, copyrights, and the kind into consideration when I say this: one cannot own nor lay claim to a concept or idea. It's impossible to physically own a concept, but entirely possible to understand a concept. Saying Bethesda stole/borrowed a concept from something else is the equivalent of saying that unless everything you do is original, then you're just another gal/guy walking in someone else's shoes.

I'm more curious as to why some of you think new automatically correlates with original.

some of the best movies or games are "reboots" or a concept re-imagined.

if we got rid of everything that was even remotely related to anything else it would get boring really fast

dragons: pshaw done before

midevil setting: coppied

swords, axes, bows: copy cats

horse's: cleary based of a picture i saw once

vampires: yawn

werewolves: just big dogs

rpg's: havent there been enough? i mean really

etc, enjoy it for what it is, or dont. buy it, or dont. either way paying for something does not give you the right to decisions about it. nor are you in any position to say how much something is worth based on what its about. there is actually alot of content in dawnguard that has nothing to do with vampires and werewolves, but explores more of Beths unique setting ellements, such as the dwemer and falmer.

-Law

Yeah, its not like Bethesda is laying claim to all of the ideas presented in Dawnguard. The writers/artists just liked what they saw and wanted to incorporate it into their game. Nothing new about that...

Bethesda have bad writers and aren't "good" creative writers... The only thing that Bethesda made that I liked because it was so different and I loved the writing and the quests.. Was Oblivion's Shivering Isles... I didn't play Morrowind enough to comment.. But I did like the geography and environment of Morrowind... But that does not relate to the topic.. What is true to me is that Bethesda has no talant in writing.. Just creative environments.. Since you hear people always admire the environment.. Not too many people admire the quests or story for a reason.. They are bad with a few quests here or there that are good..

Hope everybody understands liking a game for its story is different then liking a game for its mechanics and environment.. Like Crysis, probably one of the worst story games I have ever played had an amazing environment and phenomenal graphical capability.. Until the second one came out, and apparently they "improved" - Story was still bad and apparently graphics weren't as good..

Now looking at faction quests.. I did like how the faction quests flowed more in skyrim then they did in Oblivion but Oblivion quests I liked more than the skyrim faction quests..

Bethesda has always had a bad writer and always will have a bad writer until they get a new one.. Bad writers tend to take a old idea and just change the characters names and the location...

I will agree that the Vamps in DG are not TES's style. They are built up like a bad horror movie. Gargoyles, Castle, Bat swarm ability, Mist form, Man-Bat form, blocking out the sun, a Court kicking the "lesser" of the species..... I dont feel connected to Nirn at all

Morrowind's Main Story
Oblivion Thieves' Guild
Shivering Isles


These are the gems that Skyrim produced.
Morrowind's story is perhaps a bit cliché (prophecized heroics and all), but it's well-written nonetheless and fundamentally sound. To my knowledge it doesn't have any gaping plot holes, it gives you reason to care, it has proper use of foreshadowing and pacing and it offers plenty of detail to answer potential questions.

Oblivion's Thieves' Guild is very well-written. Again, proper use of pacing and foreshadowing, and every quest simply feels believable and makes sense. Finally, there's a point where you feel sort of lost about the guild's intentions, but this is intended so that when you finally do realize what they are, it's just VERY rewarding, very cool and very enjoyable.

Shivering Isles actually, imo, did so well because it plays into Bethesda's writing style perfectly. Bethesda has a bad habit of making one-dimensional characters with a singular personality trait that defines everything about them (for example, maybe one character is "the emo," so everything he does will involve being overly emotional in some way or form) and also not making any friggin' sense, retconning their own story to the point of making no coherent sense. But this was the realm of the insane. Insane people ARE often defined by that trait, because if you talk to an obsessive-compulsive guy, yes, you WILL definitely notice his need to keep things clean and tidy over every other personality trait of his. If you talk to a guy that's schitzo, you WILL notice how odd he acts rather than remember him for being a LA Lakers fan. And Sheogorath? He doesn't have to make sense; that's his job. They could literally write him anyways they liked and he'd be almost impossible to retcon, as insanity is the type of realm that can include anything; even the sane. Thus, Bethesda felt right at home here and it allowed what little creativity they have to mesh well with the setting.

What about OB's Dark Brotherhood? The writer got an award for that epic piece of Platinum awesomness and now he is like running the writing stuff or something

TBH I don't get that. And yes, that was Emil Pagriuijgsngsogkjs or whatever his name is, and he's currently the lead writer for Bethesda (so he's the one I need to send my hate mail to!)
Don't get me wrong, the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was perfectly fine, but it just didn't stand out to me. The Thieves' Guild did. The Dark Brotherhood did a lot of filler quests that, really...I would argue it wasn't how they were WRITTEN that made them fun, but rather the game design that made them fun; the Dark Brotherhood was fun because you had like 4-5 different options on how to complete the mission and the rewards were sweet, NOT because it was especially well written. The Thieves' Guild on the other hand, everything related to the main quest in some way; there was some filler, sure, but it was sort of a package deal and a sub-plot (as in if you did a quest for the Thieves' guild, it either related to it's main storyline or to a sub-plot; there was ONE sub-plot, not multiple random fillers), rather than just random filler going in every direction.

And while the Thieves' Guild kept you guessing until the ending, making you question what the HELL the Gray Fox's motives were while also encouraging you to play along with him for the sake of the glory of it, going down in history as one of the greatest Thieves' ever, the DB questline sort of just suddenly said "btw here's our overlaying plot as we introduce you to act II." Then you enter Act II and again there's tons of repetitive filler not nearly as fun as the ACT I filler amongst the sanctuary, and then a problem is developed just as quickly as it's solved.

To me, the Thieves' Guild did it better. The Thieves' Guild elegantly introduced a couple mysteries to you at the beginning, then unexpectedly tied them all into the plotline, so you got more answers than expected. The Dark Brotherhood's story arch was a little late to the party and failed to tie into any former mysteries or anything really; it all happened within the Dark Brotherhood.
There's a design saying for games in general that says "make it look hard, but play easy" as a way to satisfy people. It's somewhat of a stretch, but I believe the Thieves' Guild was considered so successful because it matches this philosophy in the sense that you had modest, reasonable expectations, but it delivered MORE. The only mystery we're expecting to solve is "who exactly is the Gray Fox." This is our reasonable expectation. By the end though, the Thieves' Guild delivers that AND the answers to several other mysteries on the side. We find hidden meanings behind almost every action we've done. In that sense, I consider it to be one of the best pieces of writing Bethesda produced; perhaps THE best of the three I named.
The Dark Brotherhood, I think was done decently enough but tbh if I'm critical, I think it deserves more criticism than approval. As I said, the Dark Brotherhood's story is late to the party, so for a while we're just enjoying the gameplay, not the story. We HAVE no reasonable expectations of the story because they haven't really given us one. Then suddenly a story reveals itself, and after one mission, it disappears again. Then another ~7 missions later, it pops back up. They could've very well have tied the main story into ANY of the quests we did at that point; we had little reason to believe that ONE we did in particular was pivotal to the storyline. Suddenly we're told "no it was pivotal" and sent to fix the issue-that-we-apparently-haven't-solved-yet and before you know it, we've already solved the problem and the faction is completed.

Likewise, the College of Winterhold as an example receives scathing reviews. Why? We're introduced to dozens of characters and themes, but by the end we know nothing. Our reasonable expectations are to know wtf is going on, wtf that thing/guy/blob is below the college, wtf was the point of the little scenes involving a young arch-mage, what the villain's motivations were etc. In the end though, it delivers none of this.

Again, that the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood was held in higher regard by Bethesda than Oblivion's Thieves' guild? I can only attribute that to falsly attributing the DB's success to it's storyline. No, it's quest design was the best. DB had the best quest design in the game, but not the best story. The Thieves' Guild writer should've been the one that got promoted to lead writer whereas the DB quest-designer should've been promoted to lead quest-designer.

Pureblood vampires who hate thin-blooded vampires=Blade.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6x4vhVt9u1rsshf6o1_500.jpg=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Zfk1-2NjRFw/Tu4J2sQTZpI/AAAAAAAAAQI/uPSz2hqUYS0/s1600/Selene_%2528Underworld%2529-image.jpg

http://kylerj.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/vampire-lord.jpeg http://www.mytechmesh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/dawnguard.jpg= http://nd01.jxs.cz/769/989/3fd2be993b_7461083_o2.jpg http://grassetti.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/marcuswip_19_03.jpg with some bits of http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BK-r2kjulUI/TYW9gkPtM2I/AAAAAAAAADM/jDDlz83lbsw/s1600/Van-Helsing_7.jpg.

Harkon hates Auriel(a god)=Dracula in Van Helsing hating God.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hkUOhJopwfk/0.jpg=http://images.wikia.com/underworld/images/c/c2/Elderschamber.jpg

http://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/luma_fxguide_005.jpg=http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/9/94/SKYRIM_WEREWOLF.jpg

Harkon, at the precipice of death, wishes for Immortality=Viktor, a warlord, wishing for immortality.

Now you got me curious.

Did...