I don't know about you but I hardly ever have a non guard npc die from a dragon.

Actually no, since DAY ONE I rarely even get that far in the main quest anymore...guess what that does?!

NO DRAGON ATTACKS!

Now time to await the next person with that "sage" bit of advice...

only in the cell where you are

Agreed, i can understand why people who enter cities don't want vampires to spawn somewhere else in the city that isn't the front. I'm sure that's a bug if that is happening to people.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean the attacks on towns/cities should be removed in the next patch by Beth. And that also doesn't mean that permant NPC's death should be removed as well. Because it seems that many people here think that to fix this event is to remove the attacks on towns/cities and to make NPC's, even important ones, to be able to come back after death (repopulation idea), or just not be able to die (which would make the vampire attacks pointless).

Exactly

Let me clarify this situation: It doesn't matter where the vampires spawn. They will initiate combat the instant the cell is loaded and go after the nearest actor, usually a wandering NPC. Given that they pretty much one hit a regular NPC, I very much doubt that the player will be able to get there before that NPC dies (Unless the player knows what's going to appear in the cell before it actually loads, which is impossible). And now the player will have to reload another 5 times just to keep one stupid NPC alive, and then, finally, you save him. Was that fun? I didn't think so.

And sometimes in walled cities, an attack will occur with the player unaware (usually the player is on one side of the town and the vampires on the other). Later the player visits that part of the city and finds it has been turned into a graveyard. Does the player have a save to revert to? Maybe, but I wouldn't count on them doing it if they'll lose 30+ minutes of gameplay.

And now players everywhere have to search the entire town everytime they enter/exit a building just to be sure there are no fights going on. And if there is, another 5 boring reloads. Then you exit the city, and possibly find the stables under attack. Cue another 5 reloads. But what if the player hasn't saved for a long time? Do you really expect them to willingly lose 15+ minutes of arduous gameplay?

And look at this thread, if you have time:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1391660-riften-massacre-master-vampire-attacks-imgs/

This guy plays on master difficulty, where NPCs are more resilient than usual. But that didn't help one bit and the NPCs still got massacred, as you'll notice if you look at the pictures.

And what of wandering the wilderness? The player wanders near the unwalled city of Falkreath. But that's enough for the cell to be loaded. And it's possible there could be an attack or two in Falkreath and you have no knowledge of it. Oh, except when you go back to Falkreath later and find dead bodies all over the place. You could go back to a previous save, but it's been a long time since then, and unfortunately, you've overwritten your save. Repeat this for another few unwalled cities and they will soon become ghost towns.

So let's recap: To save a walled city from certain destruction, you have to search every square inch of ground everytime you enter/exit a building in the city, in-case there are any fights/dead bodies. And that's just being lucky, because attacks can occur without the player's knowledge. Unwalled cities are even worse off, because the player just needs to be near the city for the attacks to occur.

And the solution to this extremely hard work? Remove the attacks from cities. Problem solved.

Why don't they just use that radiant ai system to replace any merchant or quest giver with a relative when they die that they bragged about that I've never seen work yet. Then we have the realism of towns getting wiped out, but then backup npcs take their place if it happens. Everyone wins.

Except that some NPC are trainers, targets for minor quests or quest givers. One example is Adrianne, the blacksmith at Warmaiden's, in Whiterun. She can be killed, several people reported in this board that they found her dead even if she is a merchant, (sort of) trainer and a questgiver.

NPC should not die from attacks from other NPCs or beasts. Only the player should be able to kill them at will.

Nobody has died in my game and i dont search every corner of the city every time i enter.
If you see any npcs running and yelling then you can easily detect those vampires.

Atacks dont happen always either.
People just have to try to adapt, its not that hard.

Its obviously not broken, and from what i have seen in my game, vampires spawn in unwalled cities only if you are really close (''tested'' in riverwood)

Maybe its not working how it is supposed to for some ppl and that why it looks that bad for them.

I myself never really had a problem with vampire attacks. In my 20+ hours of Dawnguard play time Ive probley only had 2 vampire attacks and to say the least they where easy to deal with.

Thank you.

For me it isn't so much the fact that these attacks are happening, it's that they happen every time I go anywhere. At least the dragons are only a once in awhile thing. Whiterun has been hit about 3 times in my game now. Talk about annoying. I bought the house in Windhelm and plan to move there because I don't like the Windhelm folks as much and care less if they die. If the attacks continue after I finish the questline, I doubt I'll buy the house in Solitude either because I like the folk there too much as well. Markarth may have to be my next house.

I hated it when Adrienne died....rerolled of course.....but it was still bad. One character has no one to run War Maiden's anymore.

the only raid I've seen in a city to this point happened in Whiterun when I was leaving the local tavern when I saw a ruckus down the road and flashes of red magic I knew vampires were attacking. At first it was a single guard taking on the whole mob of vamps and their hounds and then Adrienne thought she should join in and help, wielding a steel mace. She was slaughtered of course and once I got to the scene to finish them off it was too late for her. I did feel sad seeing a familiar face put to pasture like that but that was the decision she made, risking her life to defend her home and city.

Now, if it starts messing with quest givers, we got a problem (and apparently we do, as it has starting affecting other people from what I've read).

I'm glad that some people don't have this issue too. And it's perfectly fine if people drop in and say something like "I'm personally not having this issue", because it gives perspective on what's causing the issue for some people.

In every thread I've looked at about people complaining about this, you've been there and actually tried to argue with them even if they're just reporting their problem. Now at first I could see your point of view because there was a chance some people might just be complaining for the sake of complaining, or just exaggerating (in which case we want to have some perspective and not let things get out of hand).

But honestly, there have been so many complaints at this point. People have resorted to posting videos and pictures of their towns getting slaughtered (which by itself is saying something since most 360 players don't readily have the means to record their gaming). And at this point you're trying to undermine all the complaints. I've told you this before actually, but even if some players exaggerated their problem (and I'm not sure how you would even accuse them of that unless you've been to their world) it doesn't change the fact that a lot of players are having problems with this.

Again, it's one thing to say "Personally, I'm not having this issue. I've had vampires attack, but they've been dealt with and haven't caused much of a problem". It's entirely another thing to go after people who are having serious issues about this. A game mechanic was introduced into their game which is killing off a lot of NPCs for them. You can argue that this feature adds realism (and if the fatalities were limited, this would be true), but empty towns aren't realistic. They break immersion.

The first arguments against this were that the people were exaggerating, then that they're just not trying hard enough, then someone actually suggested (I think it was you actually) that maybe their guard population was down. It's idiotic.

Seriously, unless you work for Bethesda as a PR agent or something it shouldn't even matter to you. The DLC is awesome and you're not having any problems. Kudos. Enjoy it.

Here is my idea......

Perhaps there should simply just be an option in the game that allows vampire attacks. And other then that, no other changes. For those who don't like NPC's dying, you can turn off vampire attacks, that mean if you encounter vampires, it won't be in a town/city.

But for those who do enjoy the attacks how they are already, then they should have the option in having them.

That is the best middle ground that i can come up with. Becaue other ideas like, removing vampire attacks on cities/towns for good, or having NPC's who die just be replaced with another NPC that do the same function, would hurt the people who enjoy these attacks. If many people had there way here, those who support these attacks will suffer, and those who don't will be rewarded....that's not fair......so i think my idea of having an option to turn on or off is the best idea.

So, let me get this straight.

Because I'm a member of a public Forum, and I have a certain point of view. If I voice that point of view, and then vigorously defend it... I'm working for Bethesda or am on there PR team? Thus it somehow invalidates my personal point of view and my opinion?

Does that about sum up your wall-o-text?

Where I'm from, being able to stand up and defend your point of view intelligently and with passion means you've got a working set of balls. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

No.


Trying to undermine people's complaints when it's clear that a lot of people are having an issue with something is a dike move. That'd be my best tl;dr.

Most people aren't arguing or debating anything, they're literally just reporting what's happening to them. You can (and I would even recommend that you do) argue potential fixes to the problem (though to be honest I doubt it'll even matter).

But when people are saying that it's a big problem for them and you argue something along the lines of "You're exaggerating/ you're probably not trying hard enough/ your guard population must be down", you're not intelligently debating something. You're making crappy excuses. That's where my point about being on Bethesda's PR comes from.

Even though I enjoy the attacks on the characters I'm currently playing with, I hate the fact that you have no control over them. I can imagine other characters with whom I don't want to have to deal with this at all. Just like not all my characters start the main quest, to keep away dragons.

No but you're definitely a big fan of theirs if you take my meaning.

They are annoying but they hadn't killed anyone for me cause I'll just constantly paralyze them.

I wasn't seeing this problem at first, even though I was fast-travelling everywhere trying to trigger it. I finally started seeing attacks when I stopped FT-ing. 2 attacks on the road between Dawnguard Castle and Riften and one at the stable (all in broad daylight). Well that wasn't a big deal, even though I contracted SV twice (I never got around to becoming a werewolf -- big mistake). A bigger problem was when I took a cart to Winterhold. Two vampire thralls appeared and were quickly handled by the guards. I thought there should be a master somewhere and looked around for a bit, but I couldn't find him. So I went up to the bridge to enter the college. While I was talking to whats-her-name, I suddenly heard screams behind me. The master, who I guess had been hiding somewhere, was attacking people. Before I could get over there he had killed one person. It wasn't a quest-giver, but I didn't even have a chance to save him.

I've decided that I do NOT want this kind of thing happening in all my Skyrim games forever, so off my hard drive it goes.

No, you are not working for their PR team, but you are and have been actively trying to disrupt these threads with personal attacks. Probably with the intent of starting a flame war and getting the threads locked. Why you would do this I have absolutely no idea, but you are doing it.

You have never defended your point of view intelligently, at best you've used various strawman techniques to "defend" your point of view. You've definitly got passion, but I don't think that really means much. Perhaps if you actually did come up with a non-strawman defense of the attacks, and used actual constructive criticism your comments wouldn't be so inflammatory.

Yeah winterhold doesn't have many npcs so losing one is a big deal.

After I've done the questline I'm uninstalling this as well. First time Bethesda have really disappointed me. Been a loyal customer for years.

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

I, personally, think it's a brilliant feature and it's little aspects (with potentially large consequences) to a game like this that make me want to come back and play- it adds another level of dynamism to the gameplay.

For example, I was playing Skyrim today and this scenario occurred:

I ran into Solitude down towards Proudspire Manor (in the evening), by the marketplace I ran past a hooded guy and kept on going- I then suddenly realised that the guy I just sprinted past had glowing eyes, so I quickly drew my crossbow, turned around and shot him just as he started attacking- some intense, brief combat ensued leaving the Ancient Vampire (disguised simply as "Traveller") and Jorn (a Solitude NPC) dead. I actually really enjoyed this scenario and found it to be a wake-up call for city wandering- scan the city environment for strange, unfamiliar folk and then act quickly. Even if the attack occurs on the other side of town (this happened to me in Whiterun actually- which, again, I found enjoyable) it is possible to kill the vampires before they cause trouble.

Ask yourself- would you prefer to return to a city environment where wandering around obliviously is not punished? Or would you prefer to keep this excellent feature which adds a new, exciting threat and keeps you on the edge at all times? I'd always pick the latter, if you pick the former- then you need to ask yourself why you are playing an RPG; the very nature of RPGs is that things are supposed to "go wrong", important people are supposed to be murdered and scenarios are supposed to be non-perfect.

Well said.