Did DA II and TES:S really come out in the same year? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:51 pm

I don't think anyone's denying Skyrim's massive success. And probably a minority would say it's undeserved. I think a lot of people like it.. not just bought it.

But that doesn't mean DA2 was crap. It's not great, but damn.. there's no need to exagerrate and make it out to be some plague on the world of gaming. Or something. Whatever. People should tone down on the drama. It's stupid on other subjects, and it's stupid in gaming. Maybe if we're all a bunch of theatrical old grandmas at a bingo party just nagging about every little thing, and overblowing things just to make a point, it'd be fitting. But hopefully, we're not old grandmas. There are better ways to discuss things. At least, any person with a hint of self-respect and reason would want that.

I don't*, or at least thats not what I'm going for, but I make a point of being blunt. I find no need to rose-color game faults or the good parts. The fact that DA2 sold so few copies(comparred to what was expected at least) is a huge statement that the finished product is far below the standard expected of games in generall.

*mean for it to sound as a plauge in the world of gaming.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:59 am

I don't, or at least thats not what I'm going for, but I make a point of being blunt. I find no need to rose-color game faults or the good parts. The fact that DA2 sold so few copies(comparred to what was expected at least) is a huge statement that the finished product is far below the standard expected of games in generall.

I don't think you are going for that either. Just saying. I've been Bioware forums, and I'm seeing some of the drama here now. It gets old, when people can't just simply voice simple criticism (even harsh criticism), and instead have to express massive disappointment or something. Give me a break.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:57 am

I don't*, or at least thats not what I'm going for, but I make a point of being blunt. I find no need to rose-color game faults or the good parts. The fact that DA2 sold so few copies(comparred to what was expected at least) is a huge statement that the finished product is far below the standard expected of games in generall.

*mean for it to sound as a plauge in the world of gaming.

I would put it on the lower end of Bioware games. But I'm still glad that the KOTOR games, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins is on the gaming shelf.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:10 pm

I don't think you are going for that either. Just saying. I've been Bioware forums, and I'm seeing some of the drama here now. It gets old, when people can't just simply voice simple criticism (even harsh criticism), and instead have to express massive disappointment or something. Give me a break.

I agree that simple criticism is the best way to go, but sequals in general always have and will be comparred to it's predesserors. What they kept, what they added and what they removed are always huge topics, almost never without some form of whinners, like Morrowhiners.
Also, I find it hard to sumarize the good and bad points about dragon age 2 without mentioning it's short-commings comparred to DA:O which is either misunderstood as drama or miswritten so it becomes drama.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:01 am

I would put it on the lower end of Bioware games. But I'm still glad that the KOTOR games, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins is on the gaming shelf.

Haven't played KOTOR, but I greatly enjoy DA:O and ME1&2 so go figure.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:33 pm

Haven't played KOTOR, but I greatly enjoy DA:O and ME1&2 so go figure.

Kotor is pretty much the same formula, in the Star Wars universe. Kotor 2 was made by Obsidian (when Obisidian wasn't as good as they are now), and has some wtf features/plot points.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:42 pm

Re Dragon Age 2: maybe to some it is a piece of garbage.

I don't think you are going for that either. Just saying. I've been Bioware forums, and I'm seeing some of the drama here now. It gets old, when people can't just simply voice simple criticism (even harsh criticism), and instead have to express massive disappointment or something. Give me a break.

Some people are massively disappointed. They plopped down $60 expecting to be rewarded and were handed a rushed, repetitive game stripped of what made the predecessor a great experience. To make matters worse, you had blatant false advertising on the part of Bioware/EA, Laidlaw's attitude that it didn't matter what the customers wanted, and reviews put up by employees of Bioware/EA. All pretty shady [censored]. People who loved Origins fear a repeat with Dragon Age 3 so they continue to express their massive disappointment in the hopes it might sway Bioware/EA (if anything, the sales of Dragon Age 2 should do that). It's understandable that someone's criticism stretches into the massively disappointed. Honestly, I've never thought massive disappointment was justified with a game until now.

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:18 pm

Wait, DA2 had choiced that affected the world? I mean, other than x class = x sibling dies?
I have played through the game and made very different choices, but it always seemed like I ended up with the same result in the story. The Grand Chapel was destroyed etc. "Ah," you might say. "That is the same as the battle of Denerim, it would always happen no matter what you did." Well, too you observant people who would use this argument: The battle against the Archdemon was the goal of DA:O. However, the choices you made ans their long-lasting consequences are reflected upon at the end of the game, as well as altering what allies you get.
In DA2 it is simply get the gold for the trip by whatever menas without consequences, do stuff for the leader of the city by whatever means without consequences and try to stop the mage-templar war with no options for changing the outcome of the game. And along the way you kinda wonder: Why should I care about this?
Don't get me wrong, the game have some good ideas with a longlasting story, but it isn't very well executed.

And to you saying "Skyrim doesn't let you affect the world much either!": Neither did MW or OB or DF as far as I know and that wasn't a part of my argument on DA2s choices.

Yes, there is more to it than the class you picking deciding the fate of your sibbling.
For example, you can kill charicters off or not, if the charicter is still alive they will offer different quests (where as, in skyrim, you finish a quest and someone might marry you, but meh.)
Or in the deep roads, you leave your sibbling behind they enlist in the templars/get captured into the circle, or bring them with you and they contract the blight, you could then kill them or, if you have anders with you, make them a grey warden. Your mother (and perhaps other charicter, I forget) will comment apon these sometimes, and if the sibbling is alive at the final fight you will see them on whatever side. This is not to mention how what save you imported from DA:O effects the game (however slightly) Like you can see Alister either as a king or as a drunk spurting things at you in the tavern. Small things, but bigger things than skyrim non the less.

And as you said at the end, yes, all of the other TES games did not have impacts on them. That doesn't change what I'm saying that DA2 has a more acceptable and enjoyable take on charicters, but I wasn't intreasted one bit in exploring just for some plant. That's where Bethesda really makes the sales; Massive worlds to explore with intreasting things in them. I can't think of many charicter I care for in any of the TES games, or atleast in all of them combined there are less to care about then in DA2/

» Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:05 pm

Yes, there is more to it than the class you picking deciding the fate of your sibbling.
For example, you can kill charicters off or not, if the charicter is still alive they will offer different quests (where as, in skyrim, you finish a quest and someone might marry you, but meh.)
Or in the deep roads, you leave your sibbling behind they enlist in the templars/get captured into the circle, or bring them with you and they contract the blight, you could then kill them or, if you have anders with you, make them a grey warden. Your mother (and perhaps other charicter, I forget) will comment apon these sometimes, and if the sibbling is alive at the final fight you will see them on whatever side. This is not to mention how what save you imported from DA:O effects the game (however slightly) Like you can see Alister either as a king or as a drunk spurting things at you in the tavern. Small things, but bigger things than skyrim non the less.

And as you said at the end, yes, all of the other TES games did not have impacts on them. That doesn't change what I'm saying that DA2 has a more acceptable and enjoyable take on charicters, but I wasn't intreasted one bit in exploring just for some plant. That's where Bethesda really makes the sales; Massive worlds to explore with intreasting things in them. I can't think of many charicter I care for in any of the TES games, or atleast in all of them combined there are less to care about then in DA2/

Exactly my point. Your family and friends are affected, but the world follows the same path no matter what you do. To say the DA2 players choices makes an impact on the world is likel saying my school grades or wheter or not I befriend the new guy in class will determine the result of the war on terror.
Also: The import argumen isn't very valid, as it shows some DA:Os consequences rather than DA2s.