http://imageshack.us/a/img845/6585/74307559.jpg

So very true. Awesome!

Because ps4 is different from Xbone maybe? And no the ps4 players will not struggle by the fact that they have less players, which in the first place we don't even know yet. They won't struggle because of a single thing: The Megaserver. This is where it shines. In other games, if too many people left, the games servers would become ghosttowns and that would destroy the community. The megaserver will place people in gamespaces and will allways make sure there are enough people playing and that the playerbase isn't too spread out. Really, it cannot become worse than in any other game that doesn't have megaserver technology. And no, they will never put console players together with pc players, because of the reasons they have already mentioned (pvp, controls, etc), but also because the two different games have different versions and codes, plus the accounts are separated because they are on different megaservers. This would mean that they have to erase all the console accounts, which will make people agry and quit, only to force them to buy a PC and join the PC/mac megaserver. Putting them together would be a disaster for many reason, gameplay being the most obvious.

EDIT: That doesn't mean I think XBone will be succesful with ESO, I actually think quite the opposite.

I think if any of the platforms are seriously lacking in playerbase, they'll just merge them together.

It is possible for them not to be as fast, but it's also possible to be faster because with controllers you typically have options to set your scroll rate when at maximum stick range. I always see the difference in correction from overaim, which with a m&kb is less than a typical controller. However, once you learn a controller and get used to it and playing at maximum (or near max speeds), you have a tendency not to require correction for over/under aiming. So it's a give and take - ease of correction or less need for it.

I always remind people that occupationally, human thumbs are more suited for precision and fine tuning. That's why we see more need for correction on m/kb, but a much greater ease at accomplishing it versus less need for correction with a controller and thumbstick.

Very true but at the same time, not everybody has the willingness to continue to upgrade their PC all the time. So if you have a rig built around the same time as the new console comes out and you don't upgrade it, you're still on that same level aren't you? You could always keep optimizing or you can wait for the next console to come out.

Or you can go off the grid and do stuff to your console.

You shouldn't have to worry about that because this game was designed for PC in the first place. Seriously, console players know all about PvE. They're not some troglidite third class species that people tend to make them out to be.

I'm just curious how that would perform against an optimized closed system that specifically made for gaming? I understand that would be the purpose of building that type of rig, but in the end you still have a piece of equipment whose sole design was not based around gaming, but overall computing. For an extra $120.

And from what I read, neither company will be selling the console at a loss. Very very very low profit margins, but no loss nonetheless. You're still right that they will continue to make their money with games and subscription services.

The PS3 was a special case during it's initial launch because it was slow to the starting line with the other companies and had to get a console out on the market and take their lumps until better titles were finished. I don't think this is the case for the PS4 because from the titles we've seen already, they are pretty intense. Will they use the full power of the system? Probably not, very few games did for the PS3 even near the end of it's lifecycle. Part of the ease of development (or lack thereof) for that particular system. Developers will have a much easier time taking full advantage of the system now, especially a couple of the western ones (....like Bethesda).

Heh, looks like my cousin when he was playing SWToR.

That didn't stop them from playing Skyrim when it wasn't like Oblivion. There are plenty of console players that have played MMOs, it's not a new concept to them.

Unlikely I think with all the gameplay advantages that PC has. Also I doubt that the playerbase will shrink that much that it would be less than the equivalent of a normal server from another game. The megaserver will put people together nomatter what. I really think that IF the console version fails so hard that they have not even enough players to suply that small group with enough players to make the game playable and fun, that they will just shut down that server and be done with it. I don't see them merging it with PC/mac. Maybe together with Xbone, since that is closer together in terms of gameplay.

1. The game won't be developed any different because the PC version has been in development long before the notion of making a console version for it. Remember: It's a PC game first that will be ported over to the console version. So this isn't like Skyrim.

2. It was never pushed back 6 months. The estimate was pushed back, but this happens to EVERY big mmo, why does it make a difference now? They never committed to a release date so they never really pushed back anything they promised or gave their word for. MMOs because of their nature always get pushed back, and ESO is no different.

3. Game mechanics were a big reason why I lost interest at first because I thought it would be like another WoW. That combat system is too old to use anymore and going to what they're doing now sparked my interest a bit even though I don't have a rig capable of running it at an adequate level nor do I have the time or money to invest into fixing it or acquiring a new one. Coming out on console though? Yeh, that definitely sparked my interest even more so because after learning more about the consoles, I'm leaning to actually getting one (PS4) when for the past couple of months I wasn't. Big opportunity right.

That's why I said PC is about freedom, having that ability to change things on a whim or upgrade is great. When my 360 red ringed, microsoft wanted 100 dollars to fix it. That sounds worth it until you realize that I'd just be paying to get the exact same [censored] product that just broke down on me, refurbished. If a part in my PC breaks, I can buy whatever part I want to replace it, it can even be way better than the one I just had breakdown. Freedom.

I don't even care about this argument, but I feel compelled to argue when I see any mention of a console being better than PC. I still challenge anyone to name one thing that consoles can do that PC can't. <- Just because.

When you see an argument with any mention of a console being better than PC, let me know and I'll join the conversation.

The big difference is, they pc with nearly the same power is a bit more expensive thats right, but what do i do if my ps4 breaks, normally i can throw it trow the window and buy a new one. Pc i just get a knew component that is also stronger than the last one. And after 1 year the normal PC are already ahead again.

The high end pc 900 + € are already far better than the consoles.

Maybe, I was originally going to add in a comment about xbox/ps merge specifically because of their similarity. I don't really think the PC players will have much of an advantage given the compact UI and hotbar system, us PS2 players had to have a whole list of macros just using the trigger buttons for FFXI. 6 buttons ain't nothing, with the right setting on your sensitivity sliders I don't think you'll see too much difference in mobility between controller and M&K. Maybe just turning around fast.

--> Consoles can play console exclusive console game
and therefore all consoles must die!

Lol, So true.

Sad because I expected this game to make the difference in the MMO market. I expect a greater fail than TORtanic now...

Indeed but so is the wrist, which is the primary control for mouse movement, that's why so many martial and melee forms require excellent wrist control. Don't forget you can adjust both mouse sensitivity and DPI which again gives it a leg up. Again, all things being equal, mouse will always be faster and more precise.

No, no, Matt Firor SPECIFICALLY stated in the Gametrailers preview that the console beta and PC beta are two different things. He said PS4 gets the first crack at beta before XBOX but that the PC beta has already started and will continue unaffected.

There's too many threads going on to remember where, but its been thrown around on here somewhere. And on the facebook page for TESO. Its probably just a counterattack to the PC gamers trying to callout the consolers. Neither one is "better" than the other, but one is definitely better than the other. I can't explain how that makes sense but it does.

I already hit that point earlier in the thread (or another thread, who can keep track anymore). Emulators and ROMs. I can play any playstation, xbox, nintendo, handheld system, etc games right here from my computer.

Could happen right know the faith is lost, but maybe the manage to get it back somehow.

i was being sarcastic

And console emulators on PC are really not an alternative solution to play console exclusive game unless you're ready to wait many years before being able to potentially get a stable one. For example both XBOX360 and PS3 who are about 6 years old still have no available emulators on PC. That's a long time to potentially wait

That's why I hate console exclusive...

Just wait till the AOC PVP community shows up in this game. Its a wise action to separate the two platforms . some of those people are extremely good with mouse turning and run circles around your hit box and you never hit them. I don't know why its still a debate over better. its not a matter of PC players are better and more skilled or console players are better. The PC itself is better the new generation console is a low to mid ranged gaming rig inside. If you have money my suggestion is just build a gaming rig you can build a great one for a couple hundred bucks more then a console, I just built a top shelf build that costs 3k at a prebuilt company like alienware for 1200 bucks.

I think you kind of missed the point. Skyrim was much like oblivion but further enhanced the overall control scheme and gameplay to keep it more modern. Now a player who enjoyed skyrim, probably wasnt initially interested in this game because it was on pc and hast forgotten about it may one day see it on the shelves. They buy it, go home and play it to find out that the game is very much different. Sure it is first person probably plays similarly for most aspects.

Graphics will be lower than one would expect too see in a sequel....yeah there is going to be people thinking this game is a direct sequel...thats what my friend thought until i explained, he though it was some coop version in the series.

The class system will be a bit different then they are use to, same with the ability hot bar.

The soft target combat will be a new thing.

The lack of physics, no stacking cabbages, lack of a familiar crime system, can't kill all the NPCs.

I feel kind of bad for some of these people who are going to buy it because of the name not knowing and understanding that certain aspects of games have to be sacrificed in order to incorporate vasts quantities of players without griefing.

"PC is still untouchable, it's the PC," said Sage. "We're working to perfect UI and gameplay specific to the PC version of Elder Scrolls Online and the console version will have its own UI and be more controller-specific, but PC is going nowhere. "

- http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/12/4421490/the-elder-scrolls-online-segregate-pc-xbox-one-and-ps4-players

You can adjust mouse sensativity, but in an MMO or even a FPS it's rare to also increase/decrease movement speed beyond the 2-speed walk/run system. Controller you can adjust your speed constantly in any direction. Easier to aim in on somebody moving at full speed all the time (or two speeds) then somebody who has a constantly variable velocity.

And you can fine tune with a wrist, but it is not what your digits can do. Have you ever scoped in a rifle or fine tuned a telescope? Try doing it with only your wrist. They do work in conjunction, but the most fine tuning is done with the wrist locked.

All things being equal, there are advantages and disadvantages to both and if you use them according to their strengths neither are superior. Though that is in the hands of two people who know what they are doing. Most console players I've played against don't know all the tricks you can pull off with a controller (and then again, I doubt they would know all the tricks of a kb/m either). Controller gives the benefit of an easy to learn control system, kb/m takes a bit of practice and is bit more refined for the entry level. Entry level heads up between the two, I'll give the wide edge to the kb/m everytime. A well versed person in both? It's a very very narrow edge to whoever uses all the tricks in the bag.

True, but if it were that easy with a controller most FPS games wouldn't incorporate aim assist into the console versions.

I don't care about console porting the game. It could come out on the Wii U and Kinect for all I care.

What really ruffles my feathers is how the game is being delayed for this very reason. It's like it was a split second decision.