Essential

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:10 pm

A hitman does get charged differently to murderers actually.
But still gets branded and charged as a murderer, as well as the added penalty for being a hitman.
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Isabell Hoffmann
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:32 pm

Yeah waaay too many of them... Spoiler maybe, but after you complete the Civil war questline you are told there are still camps of whoever you didn't side with and they say to go kill them if you find any of the camps and if you do so there is always a high ranking officer of sorts that is essential and you can't wipe out the people you didn't side with... Annoying and extremely stupid... Oh yeah and Jaree-Ra shouldn't be essential, his useless quest wasn't even fun...

Main reason i've never done the civil war quest after my first character. Kind of ruined the whole flippin point of participating in a conflict. War is an ugly buisness but if your enemy is hands off, how are you suppose to deal with that in a roleplayable fashion. You can't. Its a sloppy poorly designed "feature" of the game to protect quests that should have had an alternative in the event that I actually wanted to take particaption in the civil war seriously. Oh well, it sure is a pretty looking game.
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Harry-James Payne
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:03 am

A hitman does get charged differently to murderers actually. I'ts besides the point anyway. Killing everything in this game is not needed, it will only create more problems than it solves and wastes the dev's time as they could be spending it doing something not useless.
Exactly how much dev time was wasted making sure you could kill npc's in Morrowind, that therefore wasn't spent on something useful?
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Lloyd Muldowney
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:24 pm

Exactly how much dev time was wasted making sure you could kill npc's in Morrowind, that therefore wasn't spent on something useful?

Skyrim is Skyrim, it is not Morrowind. There is an obvious reason why they use this system instead of the one tried and tested in Morrowind. To them, it didn't work.
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Invasion's
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:45 am

Mabey the officers are set to essential for respawn purposes? Mabey there has to be at least one there for the others to respawn there, in this case it's been done to keep the camps full of targets for you to kill instead of wipeing out every camp and then complaining that there are not enough opposeing soldiers on the map to kill. It's done the same way in Halo, I will respawn next to or close to my team mates if they are respawning as well, If I'm the only one that died then my respawn point is random and I could end up right on top of the opposeing team.
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Matt Terry
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:33 pm

A hitman does get charged differently to murderers actually. I'ts besides the point anyway. Killing everything in this game is not needed, it will only create more problems than it solves and wastes the dev's time as they could be spending it doing something not useless.
It actually wastes development time to keep those NPC from dying.
Every character by default is able to die, which means new code and animations will be needed to insure that certain ones don't die.
Now that they've wasted time making this code/animation, they further waste time by implementing it to tons of useless NPCs
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Vivien
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:35 am

It actually wastes development time to keep those NPC from dying.
Every character by default is able to die, which means new code and animations will be needed to insure that certain ones don't die.
Now that they've wasted time making this code/animation, they further waste time by implementing it to tons of useless NPCs

More code is needed when you have to tell something to die. Plus the game already has been made.
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John N
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:57 am

Skyrim is Skyrim, it is not Morrowind. There is an obvious reason why they use this system instead of the one tried and tested in Morrowind. To them, it didn't work.
And yet we are left with the huge amount of people making the observation that while Skyrim may or may not be a better game than Skyrim (better for whatever reason, usually the combat), Morrowind was superior in the rpg stakes.

More code? Fact that can be proven with evidence, or statement pulled out of thin air to back up an argument?
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Meghan Terry
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:50 pm

It's a perfectly legitimate topic for discussion, especially when you see the sheer http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Essential_NPCs of essentials.

holy crap! that's a big list, they have people for every letter of the alphabet.
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Josh Sabatini
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:15 pm

Skyrim is Skyrim, it is not Morrowind. There is an obvious reason why they use this system instead of the one tried and tested in Morrowind. To them, it didn't work.
Or.....Just maybe it's because the fanbase they aim at nowadays are silly little children, because it doesn't seem to be aiming at a matured audience with the essential feature.
Off Topic: but its further aimed at children, because not once have I heard any swear words and IIRC Nords are vulgar people who would be the most common culprits using vulgar language, but there are none...http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedie/personnages/perso/g28b.gif what http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/fantasy/wallpapers/viking-warriors.jpgshould have been...
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Carlos Rojas
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:12 am

Thats how I believe it works, because having the whole game world running simultaneously would be a great stressor on the game and load times would be a painstakingly long.

Yes. On PC it's controlled by the uGridsToLoad ini setting (Default value is 5). Outside of that area nothing happens. So a Dragon wont eat an important NPC at Solitude while you are at Riften. Or Whiterun. Or Morthal. Or Dragon Bridge :hehe:
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Jaki Birch
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:54 pm

Mabey the officers are set to essential for respawn purposes? Mabey there has to be at least one there for the others to respawn there, in this case it's been done to keep the camps full of targets for you to kill instead of wipeing out every camp and then complaining that there are not enough opposeing soldiers on the map to kill. It's done the same way in Halo, I will respawn next to or close to my team mates if they are respawning as well, If I'm the only one that died then my respawn point is random and I could end up right on top of the opposeing team.

No it is not, each and every single NPC can be set to respawn via the respawn checkbox in the CK. It has nothing what so ever to do with the officers. You could wipe out the entire camp and they will all respawn officer included so long as they all have the respawn box checked.
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jodie
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:02 pm

More code is needed when you have to tell something to die. Plus the game already has been made.

Ehm. No.
More code is needed to ensure that NPC's cannot die, as by default they can.

Essential NPC's are annoying and detrimental to gameplay.
There should be no essential NPC's in the game.
Its my game, if I want to kill Maven Blackbriar I should be able to and if that means I cant do a questline well boohoo.
Thats the consequence of my choice, two things which Skyrim sorely lacks.
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T. tacks Rims
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:20 pm

More code is needed when you have to tell something to die. Plus the game already has been made.
Where do you pull this from, do you do any development to know what is and isn't need, and how much is needed?
Like I said everything by default is killable (not much code), now you want to add a feature that will make some unkillable (more code), and now on top of this new code you want to assign it to certain NPCs (more code again)
By adding things like the essential markers and the feature altogether you are adding more code, and you are wasting time on hand holding features.
Do you really need this much hand holding?
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Angela Woods
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:48 am

More code? Fact that can be proven with evidence, or statement pulled out of thin air to back up an argument?

When you code you are basically telling something with no brain exactly what you want it to do, if you don't tell it to do anything, it does nothing. If you don't tell it to die, it will not die.


Where do you pull this from, do you do any development to know what is and isn't need, and how much is needed?
Like I said everything by default is killable (not much code), now you want to add a feature that will make some unkillable (more code), and now on top of this new code you want to assign it to certain NPCs (more code again)
By adding things like the essential markers and the feature altogether you are adding more code, and you are wasting time on hand holding features.
Do you really need this much hand holding?

The default is the character does absolutely nothing.
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Silencio
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:59 pm

No I don't need this much hand holding, but the newbie thats been playen CoD their entire game life might.This is the point, Beth. are tryen to bring in more business and more gamers to TES and to do this they made Skyrim the inbetweenie of a hard core RPG and a first person action adventure game. And more then likely this will be the trend, todays gamer has a slight case of ADD and it takes alot less these days to turn todays gamer from a game.
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Evaa
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:54 pm

The default is the character does absolutely nothing.
Obviously you can't come up with anything better to help your point but would rather post crap.
Since you wanna play like that though, by default actually the NPC doesn't exist.
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ShOrty
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:21 pm

No I don't need this much hand holding, but the newbie thats been playen CoD their entire game life might.This is the point, Beth. are tryen to bring in more business and more gamers to TES and to do this they made Skyrim the inbetweenie of a hard core RPG and a first person action adventure game. And more then likely this will be the trend, todays gamer has a slight case of ADD and it takes alot less these days to turn todays gamer from a game.

true story IMO
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jodie
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:51 pm

.....So it's EA jr?
Nice money grabbing technique then <_<
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Ria dell
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:11 am

Something I've noticed increasingly over the last week is the number of essential NPCs there are.
This has gotten rather annoying to deal with, when I'm getting bored of doing quests and looting places I just want to vent some anger by massacring a whole town but I can't because the vast majoirty of them just keep getting back up.

Why is there a need to have so many essential characters, most of whom aren't related to the main quest - like the Dark Brotherhood for example, what is the point in joing such factions if you can't just all of a sudden turn on them and crown yourself conquerer of Skyrim :shrug:
If there is going to be a TES VI I'd like to see every character killable, even if they have quests attached to them - people have to deal with those consequences.

Does anyone else find the amount of essential NPCs annoying and momentum breaking?

Best suggested fix so far IMO:
Spoiler



I agree with this. I decided to kill that snotty little elf in river wood who kept asking me if he saw me talking to Sven. An hour later I killed everyone in the town and decide to make it official by going into the Inn to wipe them out. Then I run into Delphine the Immortal who no matter what I toss at her, just won't lay down and die. I was a bit sad by this. I know her importance in the game but common. Isn't suppose to be a game where I can do what ever I want? Where I can kill WHO EVER I want? Even if they are related to the main quest, its should still be a choice I have. I know this was doable in past games but it caused quest to be uncompleted. Well maybe players will learn going on massive slaughter fests isn't the best idea now wont they?
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Rowena
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:16 pm

.....So it's EA jr?
Nice money grabbing technique then :dry:

well...did you think they were making games to please the fans??? LOL
they make games for money and possibly they try to make them appealing to everyone, not only hardcoe gamers or fans of the series to sell even more, welcome to the real world
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Victor Oropeza
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:29 pm

Obviously you can't come up with anything better to help your point but would rather post crap.
Since you wanna play like that though, by default actually the NPC doesn't exist.

your whole thread has been filled with trash, just face it, your idea is never going to happen and I'm happy with that.
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D LOpez
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:17 pm

No I don't need this much hand holding, but the newbie thats been playen CoD their entire game life might.This is the point, Beth. are tryen to bring in more business and more gamers to TES and to do this they made Skyrim the inbetweenie of a hard core RPG and a first person action adventure game. And more then likely this will be the trend, todays gamer has a slight case of ADD and it takes alot less these days to turn todays gamer from a game.

This is true. Todd himself even said that skyrim was streamlined for a wider audience. AKA he wanted the numbers CoD has. Now I don't feel that decision makes Skyrim a dumb persons game. It is far easier I admit to get into than Oblivion or Morrowind which required the "spread sheets" to even have a good class but many of us enjoyed that aspect of it. I think what will happen with Skyrim is that it will bring a dawn of new TES games. Either Bethesda will realize that it is pushing its niche market away and will start making more Morrowind type RPG's, or they will focus on being streamline and step out of the "old school rpg" realm into the new age of gaming.
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Sophh
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:24 am

your whole thread has been filled with trash, just face it, your idea is never going to happen and I'm happy with that.
Aw now thats not very nice is it, better be careful not to upset my fragile state :confused:
Yeah it probably won't, so I'll go back to the real games true to RPGing like Fallout etc, was silly of me to think a suggestion others feel strongly about could have been so stupid :rolleyes:
But since you're happy not wanting my idea leave the thread :wave:
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W E I R D
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:51 pm

When you code you are basically telling something with no brain exactly what you want it to do, if you don't tell it to do anything, it does nothing. If you don't tell it to die, it will not die.

As a programmer myself, I can say with 100% certainty you are absolutely wrong.
The development process would be more akin to

Create Person object type.
Create Combat/Damage procedures
Create Death Check.
Create Death Procedure
Apply combat/damage/death procedures to person object.

This will apply to every single person object. No more coding is needed. Each of those procedures are already needed for creature combat too. It's a core part of the game.

However to make creatures/persons essential requires more work.

Create isEssential flag
Create DeathIntervention procedure and animation
Manually sort through list of NPCs and apply flag to applicable persons.(Or apply to all and remove from applicable persons)
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Brentleah Jeffs
 
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