The reason people like Morrowind is for different reasons than why other people like Skyrim. I cannot speak for anyone else but I loved Morrowind because of the interesting lore and politics as well as a very alien world and very cool metaphysical concepts. I also loved the art direction in that game. I feel like a Morrowind made with modern technology and techniques while keeping the story and lore intact would make everyone's jaws drop in amazement. I am so sick of the generic fantasy setting like Skyrim and Oblivion. I WANT to see a mature high fantasy landscape. Yes Giant Mushrooms, bugs and lizards. But within a world that's grounded in quasi-reality.

Yeah because giant mushrooms and lizards are mature!

Shivering Isles has muchrooms in its landscape.

I'm pretty sure Dawnguard will also have some. The DLC for Skyrim.

Hey, all the reasons that people love Morrowind, I love it for those reasons too! Morrowind was the standard of games in my eyes from its release until Skyrim. I find Skyrim to be an improvement, but in no way is that a poo poo on Morrowind. Morrowind is still an amazing game. I just feel that one game out there topped it - and it took 10 years and the creators of Morrowind itself to top it.

same, people have a love for skyrims gameplay but cant seem to grasp that the series was not always known for that. it was for its lore and world. oblivion was paraded for god knows why, lol, but i love it still

Thing is, all that lore and politics and interesting world, all the things that attracted me to Morrowind are what attract me to Skyrim as well. I think Skyrim has great lore, I get very intrigued by the Nord lore, I think there is plenty of political intrigue with the Thalmor and the outlawing of Talos worship, and the overall civil war. The world may not be as "alien" as Morrowind's, although I do believe the "alien" notion about Morrowind is a bit overplayed on these forums. There are some mushrooms on the eastern side of the province, but most of the landscape is typical swamps, deserts, etc.

Whereas Skyrim might not be quite as "alien", but I do find it to be very majestic. I love the sights of the Throat of the World, the icy cliffs up north by Winterhold, the beautiful mountainous regions of The Reach and Markarth, the city of stone. As far as lore and landscape goes, I would put Skyrim very much equal with Morrowind. Hell, even Oblivion has great lore and landscape as well - just because it's more medieval fantasy doesn't mean it isn't quality. My main beef with Oblivion's landscape is that it is so wide open, and if you put any points into the speed attribute at all, you can traverse the entirety of the landscape almost like nothing.

That's what I love about Elder Scrolls, that each nation has a rich history, that each town and city has it's own personality, and they all feel so alive.

I don't find the Nordic Lore all that amazing. Maybe that is why I am underwhelmed. It just feels like something I have seen before in the way Bethesda represented them. They could have made them much weirder but they just went with the familiar route.

Morrowind was alien and different for more than just mushrooms. There were weird creatures and weird architecture as well as very strange yet still compelling and a nearly completely unique and realized culture. Morrowind would have looked much more beautiful than Skyrim if it had the same graphics and attention given too it IMO for the story and everything else behind it. There have been multiple fantasy renditions of Vikings and Romans so seeing them so blatantly copy pasted onto the Nords and Imperials in game left me with a bad taste. The Nords and Imperials in the books are so much more interesting than their representations in game while the Dunmer seemed fitting as they were presented in their books and in game. I have never come across anything that resembles the Dunmer in any fiction or non fiction that makes me think I can give them a 1-1 comparison. That is a feat.

You see, to people that prefer Morrowind over Skyrim, those things weren't small, needless or redundant. Being able to jump on any building and running extremely fast if I so desired were core aspects of TES for me, because they were expressions of the freedom in character design and world-approach that make TES special. The same can be said for spellmaking. Or character dispositions. I loved Morrowind for all those "little things". And they butchered it to unrecognizable proportions in Skyrim. It's still a great TES game for all the other reasons, but they removed too much of what made Morrowind great.

Morrowind was a world, whereas Skyrim is "just" (although a great) game.

I hope TESO will be a world.

I am pretty sure that's not the reason for Skyrims shortcomings.

And that represents my point perfectly - what fanbase do you cater to?

You find things like Acrobatics, numbers to dictate NPC disposition, and Spellmaking as "essential" to the Elder Scrolls experience.

I find Acrobatics to be pointless, a skill I go out of my way to make sure I never utilize, I am just fine with how Skyrim handled NPC disposition, and Spellmaking, while a great customization tool, I feel is far from essential.

I believe that the current magic mechanics are an upgrade, and I also am of the belief that Spellmaking would not be compatible on a technical level with the current spell mechanics. I'd rather have the current system sans Spellmaking than the older system with it (although if Spellmaking could be proven to work with the current system, I would welcome it back and be happy to have it). Personally, things like Athletics, Acrobatics, and attributes had a negative effect on my character because those things leveled on their own beyond my control, and turned my character into something I didn't want it to be. Attributes contributed to that because once I got my chosen attributes to 100, I then had to put my points into attributes that didn't represent my character if I wanted to continue playing. Attributes, Athletics, and Acrobatics would work towards turning my character into something I didn't want them to be. If Elder Scrolls were to go back to that stuff, I would consider it a step backwards and a regression.

So, we have 2 different fans, both of which are just as important to the series as the other... who does Bethesda cater to?

Again, my point - at some point, the developers just need to make the game in their vision, and the fans either like it or they don't.

That's my point when people come on here complaining about ZeniMax's decision to make an MMO, and what vision they made that MMO in. You can express your displeasure, but to act as if you are somehow entitled to the developers to make the game you want is wrong, because someone out there wants exactly what ZeniMax is offering. The people who don't want it can simply avoid it. Instead, they want to act victimized and develop and entitlement complex.

All fair points. It's a difficult decision for developers to decide who they want to make their game for. But without us giving feedback, they won't know what their target audience would like to see. Entitlement is just the perversion of that process. =/

Just want to say I respect your opinion but some of your info is faulty. The attribute part is false because you can decide to stop leveling. Sleeping is not required and that is what makes you level in Oblivion and Morrowind. In Skyrim you level up instantly, whether you want to or not. From there you cannot go into your skills menu without having to level. In any case I would say Skyrim did leveling much better than its predecessors with perks and all that. I would also say that acrobatics and athletics and such should have been reworked and redone instead of tossed out.

I should also toss out this blanket statement too. Morrowind and Skyrim are not better than one or the other. They are different and stand on their own merits. I hope the next game will infuse the best of both.

How about I make a list of things Morrowind and Oblivion should bring to the next game and you do one for Skyrim?
-most importantly for me is a Journal that effectively records pertinent information for quests. Imagine the PC writing the info themself and you can kind offer what I mean. However this would need to be much more organized than Morrowinds. I liked Oblivion's Journal actually. Quest Markers are fine too though. I just feel like they are enormous spoiler marks. But sometimes I just want to DO the quest.
-slash, blunt and piercing damage. This would be great to add depth to the gameplay. Instead of doing slash, pierce or blunt damage though, a weapon would just deal a range of all of them at once. To add to this certain armors should be better or worse against certain types of damage.
-well this is obvious because it is a large deal of complaints but weapon variation. Throwing weapons and spears and all that.
-have quest lines that can conflict and must be resolved. If you choose to be in more than one faction and they oppose each other there should be consequences. However I know restricting people is a bad idea so I feel like instead of Morrowinds system of either or with the Great Houses you can do all of them but it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain your station in all the guilds. Instead of failing you just cannot complete the quests until you figure out a way to get past the obstacle. Could make speech craft worthwhile. It was somewhat useful in Morrowind but not that much so. So far it has felt mostly useless in Skyrim. Maybe a rumor that you are in X guild so Y guilds member won't give you anymore quests until he is convinced you are not part of x guild. You get past that with a high speechcraft skill or you dazzle them with a feat of strength(guild related skill being very high)
-uh I got more but gotta study. Your turn if your interested.

I agree. The Nords and their surrounding environment on Solstheim felt more exotic to me than the Nords and their surrounding environment in Skyrim.

ES5: Skyrim should have followed the example that ES3: Bloodmoon set better. But it did not and I think that this is why ES5: Skyrim felt a bit lacking to me.

But, even so, I still enjoyed playing ES5: Skyrim.

Well the Skaal are different from the Nords. Different Gods, culture, beliefs, environment, etc etc. They are kind of like the Nords Ashlanders in some ways but more extreme. I still enjoyed Skyrim for some time but for all its toting of 300 hours of gameplay I got bored much quicker then I did with the other TES games. It just has no replay value for me. The world is cool but I just expected more from the presentation of the Nords. I feel like none of the races will ever be as fleshed out as a culture like the Dunmer were in Morrowind. svcks because the Nords are my second favorite race. Their lore while mildly interesting is just sorely lacking. Hopefully that is remedied in the Expansions.

You say it's not going to be as bad as people say it will be. Depending on that I have to ask a few question about combat.
Is there any chance to change view between 3rd and 1st person?
You also said that combat will be fun and have stamina and blocking system does that mean you can also swing your sword by yourself or is there autoattack-locktarget system which always kills all the fun in combat?
Third question is about the hotbar, is it located on keyboard as it should be or are them putting it on the screen where you need to click the buttons with mouse?
My last question is about the graphics. You said they are looking impressive - are they truly? As this far I have seen only (probably alpha) screenshots where balance between the size of bodyparts of the characters is not natural and makes them to look like more comical characters than anything impressive.

Yes, they it easy guys, they're not going to stop making single playing Elder Scrolls, WE GET NEW DLC THIS SUMMER! Maybe its better they decided to take this direction for an MMO.

I did not mean that all Nords in ES5: Skyrim should have been Skaal clones. I simply meant that the Nords in ES5: Skyrim should have been as distinct and memorable as the Skaal were, as opposed to them simply being the "average citizens of the Empire."

But, yeah, I hear you and I agree.

idk i just wanna see all the information in front of me so i can examine it and really decide if the MMO will be worth buying. Unfotunately i can't do that right now meh

agree ppl need to calm down this thing is years away anyway, I guess ppl are just pissed b/c swtor ended up to be big disapppointment.

I'd like to remind you that many people have different opinions. My favorite TES game is Oblivion myself. Thats my opinion, your opinion is Skyrim was better than Morrowind. It's not fact

You are absolutely correct. I believe 100% that people should be here expressing what they perceive as shortcomings in the game. Despite what many think, I am not against negative criticism of Bethesda games, I am against the attitude of entitlement. If there is something you perceive as "bad" in a current or future game? By all means, express your displeasure, what you would like to see changed, and how you'd like it changed if you have an idea (I know I don't always know how I want something changed, just that I want it changed, so I know people don't always have a solution). Just stop acting like you have somehow been personally victimized, or that somehow your opinion is a general universal truth. And when I say "you", I am using "you" generic, not "you" specific.


The thing about leveling though is that sleeping is part of how I play the game. I like to sleep my character at night, when the shops are closed and there isn't much that my character can do. Just "waiting" completely breaks my RP and I hate it.

I'll also give you an example from my main Oblivion play through that I am talking about. I was playing a Shadow Knight (if anyone is unfamiliar, Shadow Knight is EverQuest's term for a mix between a Necromancer and a Warrior), a Redguard born under the Atronach sign, so magicka regen was non-existent. Therefore, my favored attributes were Strength, Endurance, and Intelligence. I got to a point where all of those attributes were maxed out at 100, so in order to continue leveling, I had to put points into other attributes. Well, I did want to level up my Luck attribute, but I can't just put in one point, I have to put in all 3, so I had to level up something that I didn't want. I believe I put points into Willpower (even though I didn't have magicka regen, I feel there was another element of Willpower that fit my character), and the other point was going to get spent in something that I didn't want for my character, either Agility or Speed. I ended up putting it in Speed, and I hated how fast my character became. In order to avoid that, I'd have to change how I play, by not sleeping, which is an RP element for me, and part of how I play the game. I don't think that's fair to have a certain style eventually forced upon you in that way. That said, it wasn't a huge ordeal for me, but I definitely prefer the newer form of no attributes, no Athletics, no Acrobatics.

If that stuff could be worked into the game in a more preferable way, I'd welcome it, but I much prefer the current system over the older system.

Now with that said, I think you have a good list there. I would love to see different attack types brought back for different weapons, I loved the chop / slash / thrust damage of Morrowind. I'd take it one further as well and say that I believe that, just like Morrowind, if your skill in a particular weapon or armor type is low enough, it will actually drop it's stats for you. I know in Morrowind, if I found a higher tier of Heavy Armor, it would provide less benefit to me than my lower tier Light Armor, because my Light Armor skill is much higher than my Heavy Armor skill. I would love to see that system come back.

You mentioned the different weapon types - I'd be happy to see any new weapon types come back, especially thrown weapons which I did like in Morrowind (although I do understand why they were dropped, because simply put, they were not very effective, they were worse in every way than a bow and arrow or crossbow). Their removal doesn't bother me so much cuz I saw them as such a minor deal, but if they came back, I'd be happy.

I would be happy to see Morrowind's guild system come back as well, of needing skill requirements to advance, and certain guilds that are in conflict with each other. Again, I don't see the change as a huge deal, but if it were to return, I would greatly enjoy it.

As far as things in Skyrim that I want to see continue on in the series:

*Perks - This is first and foremost, may be my favorite thing about Skyrim. I love the perks, and I would love to see them expanded upon in a future TES 6. Any removal of perks could very well be the biggest disappointment for me thus far in the series.
*Casting mechanics - I love all the new spell variety and types of casting that we got, and want to see that continue on into the future, as well as become expanded upon.
*Living world - I think this has just been a natural evolution, and not necessarily a "Skyrim" thing, but I love how alive the world feels. For instance, walking into a pub and getting challenged to a drinking contest, entering Markarth and watching a murder in the square, the NPC's and their jobs and routines, the world just feels so alive, I love what they did with it. Again, that's been a natural evolution, but that's something I love about Skyrim.
*Enchanting - It's small, but I actually like Skyrim's style of needing to disenchant items better than enchanting things with spell effects that you know. The latter leads me to buying spells that I would never use, just to get the effect, the former (and current style) feels more natural to me.
*Smithing - One of my biggest wants in an Elder Scrolls game since I fired up Morrowind the first time, I'm glad this made it into the game, I find it as a huge improvement over Armorer, and would want to see this continue going forward.
*Dual Wield - Another one of my biggest wants since the beginning for me, I hope this remains going forward as well. Between these 2 skills, I can truly finally play the style of character that I want to play, because those options have finally been given to me.

Those are some things from Skyrim that I want to see going forward. I think you have a very good list, and in my opinion, if things from your list were combined with things from my list, we would have the best Elder Scrolls yet!


And this is ultimately what has to be remembered in these debates. Some people may want exactly what TES:O is offering, others may not. Those that don't want it can avoid it, nothing is being forced upon them.

Many people like Morrowind best, many like Skyrim best, many like Daggerfall best, and many like Oblivion best. Personally, my order goes Skyrim > Morrowind > Oblivion, with Daggerfall and Arena not ranking simply because I haven't played them enough, and what I have played didn't catch me (they are sooo dated, but I do plan on playing at least Daggerfall). And even then, Skyrim > Morrowind > Oblivion are still my 3 favorite games of all time, so even if Oblivion is "last" on that list, it's still on a pedestal high above anything else.

It's all opinions, it's all video games, and people need to stop getting so worked up and personally insulted over both.

And what of Zenimax? What my point is that they could be adding way more downloadable content and the MMO thing could have waited...Why do step 2 when you can go in order and start on step 1? And as for this MMORPG I genuinely think that Bethesda is over-compensating too much...

I just hope there will be servers that won't make people to do pvp if they dont want to.

Hmmm. If Star Wars is failing this hard. Elder Scrolls is going to fail even harder.



Star Wars: The Old Republic has lost 400,000 subs since February

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-07-star-wars-the-old-republic-has-lost-400-000-subs-since-february


Suggestion, go F2P or get destroyed.

You're bitter. Get used to this new direction, or it's going to be painful. Sorry.