Wait...this board will disappear when the official forum opens up on the official site? I thought all Bethesda published games have a permanent home here?

I still don't think we have nearly enough information to assume it's A: a WoW clone and B: a deliberate attempt at a WoW clone. At least you aren't claiming everything in the article that doesn't sound like WoW is a lie on the part of Zeni, though. That was awkward.

And actually, there is every excuse for investors. WoW sells, people like TES. I feel it may not be the smartest move to try to break into WoW's market, but if any work of fantasy can unseat the reigning king of fantasy MMOs, it would be the one where divine kings practice onanism and people give birth to their own ancestors when the magic dragon coughs.

Every WoW clone has had its own take on the formula, none of them are really 1:1 copies. They're still called "WoW clones" because they use its formula as a base and don't diverge too far from it.

That would be excuse to buy stock in Activision-Blizzard, not attempt to topple WoW. Well, the first attempt at doing so, maybe, but after it has been tried so many times it should be well established by now that the risk/reward ratio is poor.

Like what? Apart from better graphics and different combat? They've removed skills, weapons and abilites since Morrowind.

I still enjoy Skyrim. But it is all just opinions after all. There is no 'true' definition of these things. Because their can't be. But we know that the 'core' fans and by that I suppose I mean the people who played and enjoyed the original games, we know what they wanted and they expected. I love progession and I fully support a developer going after their 'vision' but not when that vision is to completely 'redefine' the experience, that usually turns out iffy. I would have hoped that with this they would have put effort into making something unique. The fans should decide what happens, not the developers.

And added a lot more. A lot of what was removed since Morrowind really is small, needless redundancy.

Skills removed and not replaced: Medium Armor, Acrobatics, Athletics, Spears

That's really it. Every other skill from Morrowind exists in Skyrim in some fashion, albeit there are different takes on the skills, yes.

*Armorer - removed and replaced with Smithing. I find this to be a huge upgrade, and adding more complexity than Armorer ever offered.
*Hand to Hand - still in the game, although not as a skill, but there are specializations in hand to hand allowing it to be a playstyle.
*Unarmored - not in the game as a skill, but offered as a specialization within the Alteration skill tree.
*Mysticism - not offered as a skill in the game, but most of what it did is in the game, just in different schools.
*Long Blade / Short Blade / Axe / Blunt - replaced with One Handed / Two Handed, and specializations within each skill tree.
*Mercantile - has simply been merged with the Speechcraft skill
*Pickpocket - was never in Morrowind, made a return.
*Enchanting - removed as a skill in Oblivion, returned as a skill in Skyrim.

That doesn't scream mass removal to me, and in many ways it sounds like more than we had before.

The skills themselves now offer more customization than before, because the skills aren't just a generic 1-100 rise, but now the perk trees offer specialization within each skill. Thus a level 100 in Conjuration character could be completely different than a level 100 in Conjuration in Morrowind or Oblivion. You now choose a specialization - summoned Daedra, necromancy, or bound weapons - or any of the possibilities. These specializations exist for virtually every skill: Destruction - frost, fire, shock; Conjuration - Daedric summons, necromancy, bound weapons; One Handed - axes, maces, blades, dual wield; Two Handed - battleaxes, warhammers, greatswords; Sneak - stealth damage, or silent movement; Speechcraft - mercantile / haggling or NPC interaction; Smithing - light armors and weapons, or heavy armors and weapons; etc...

That sounds like more complexity to me.

The spellcasting system I feel has been greatly improved. We have lost some effects, and I think that svcks, but I think what we got is far better than a few effects that we lost. Spells can now be cast in many different ways than just the simplistic "target", "touch", "self" effects, allowing for new styles of mage play that was never possible before. I don't think the potential was fully realized, but I do believe what we have is better than the old system with Spellmaking.

What I see in Skyrim is deeper, more complex skills than before, deeper, more complex combat and magic than before, with only minimal losses that we've had before that don't come anywhere close to outweighing what we've gotten.

Wrong lol. But you have the right premise. People have been saying the series would be destroyed since Daggerfalls reveal. People and many Gamers seem to have this entitlement that they know the direction a game series needs to go. Well what they do know is where THEY want it to go. As much as I wish it was different the TES demographic is wildly unrepresented on these forums and they do consist of people who want many different things from a game than I or we do. Luckily I'm pretty easy. I just want lore. Would be great if that's not totally eschewed which I have seen very little actual evidence of being unlikely so advantage me!

Nope. Not a chance.

Amen...

No money was taken from Skyrim..............

the money they used on the MMO was money they raised specifically for the MMO, if they had never made the MMO they would have never raised the money.

Eaither way Bethesda's budget remains the same.

What happens if the MMO flops? That financial drain will effect Bethesda down the pipeline, both Zenimax online and Bethesda have the same evil overlord.

It's called "opportunity cost". Having said that, just throwing more money at Skyrim wouldn't automatically guarantee a better product. If it worked that way, all of Microsoft's products would be top-notch.

Nothing...........

sharing the same parent company does not mean you share the same budgets or that Zenimax doesnt have something in place in case it tanks.


There is that

I'm pretty sure they're doing fine in the sales department.

But they've not opened up pre-orders yet? How can you be so sure

I meant as a company, since that's what you were talking about. Skyrim shattered a few records within days of its release.

So even if ESO flops (which would only affect budgeting for Zenimax Online, because any smart company would keep funding for different projects separated), they'll be fine.

I hope your right

He is right. Relax. Geez. By the time they even announce an ES VI, most of you will have worried yourselves sick.

whoa u just blew my minde is this why the mane quest lines were so shallow?

The reason why the qust lines were "shallow" was becuase they pulled back many dynamic quests from them at the last mintue becuase they felt they had too many.

Furthermore no money was taken from Bethesda's Skyrim budget to make the MMO

I worked for a fortune 500 company that has done side projects before- completely separate companies they started to generate different revenue sources. These are kept separate and treated separate. They have their own budget limitations, cost estimates and revenue streams. If TES:O is successful, none of that money will be given to Bethesda. Likewise, if it tanks, none of it will apply to Bethesda's budget.

Well that is good to hear, thanks that has helped put my mind at ease

That's the one where I threw money at my screen screaming "Take it, take it all!"

Personally, my concern is the treatment of Bethesda, whether or not the game is successful. Beth has their own separate budget, but that can be limited by their parent company, as can development time and a dozen other ways they can make Bethesda's live miserable if they're disappointed by something. They may not be able to directly blame Beth if the game tanks, but a disappointed boardroom may choose to lash out anyway. Likewise, if TES:O is successful, they may not see a point in allowing Beth to have such long development time- once companies get a taste for fast money, it's hard to see past it.

It's a long shot, but it still concerns me.

Incredibly well-said. I am always baffled by those folks who continue to claim Morrowind is the best of the series. It was good - but it's just not Skyrim-good. I imagine much of that bravado comes from the idea that a lot of TES's fans jumped onto the bandwagon starting WITH Morrowind, and that's fine. They became attached to their first-love, and bang that drum for the rest of their lives. Totally understandable.

Needless to say, the topic of this thread is "Everybody Chill", and I can't help but get a chuckle out of the numerous people who are having blood-vessels bulging out of their foreheads and in desperate need of a pacemaker - all from the simple announcement that this game was coming. It's hilarious. Truly.

We haven't seen any footage, don't really have many facts, don't really have much to go on to truly judge if this game is even worthy of the title TES:O. I see a lot of people poo-pooing it for the simple reason that they just don't like MMOs, or they have the unfounded and irrational belief that this game is somehow going to destroy Bethesda's ability to make the next TES single-player game.

Really?

"Abomination!"... based on a screen shot, a handful of facts, and a LOT of speculation?

Come on, folks. We're better than that.

The MMO flopping might affect other games, but it won't affect the single player ES games. They make them too much money.