[Tai Scott]

What was so bad about them?

A bunch of guys impersonating the Roman army in a post nuclear-apocalypse wasteland? That's outright ridiculous. And the fact that they we're supposed to be a serious, top tier faction only adds insult to injury. For starters, it would be unlikely that anybody would know much about the Roman empire by then, let alone cared. Not only that, but they actually went as far as dressing up like them and adopting latin-names for their makeshift engine chariots (why would they bother doing that in the first place? An actual car or truck would be much more practical and useful), and convinced thousands of people into joining their cosplay.

Honestly... It sounds just like a silly silver-age comic book, and that's REALLY not a good thing.

[Damian Parsons]

There was a pretty good reason for why/how CL was formed, and the chariot artwork was something that Chris Appelhans just did for fun. We never planned on having CL use chariots (normal or combustion-engine-powered).

[AnDres MeZa]

Can you divulge the why's and how's?

[Austin England]

I just hope that for the first time ever Beth-death-sta hires people who know how to do dialog. Don't get me wrong, FO3 was better than Obliv, but seriously, a 12yr old with a thesaurus could do better dialog. I know that writing in this country is going away, a lost skill, going the way of the 8-track but if we do not wish to end up like the society in the movie Idiocracy than we NEED to READ! it's important.

the car was nice not jsut to get somewhere faster, but to have a place to store things, much more useful than an apartment. ...a Motorcycle would be kewl too though =)



....also, bring back the groin shots!

[Leah]

I just hope that for the first time ever Beth-death-sta hires people who know how to do dialog. Don't get me wrong, FO3 was better than Obliv, but seriously, a 12yr old with a thesaurus could do better dialog. I know that writing in this country is going away, a lost skill, going the way of the 8-track but if we do not wish to end up like the society in the movie Idiocracy than we NEED to READ! it's important.

the car was nice not jsut to get somewhere faster, but to have a place to store things, much more useful than an apartment. ...a Motorcycle would be kewl too though =)



....also, bring back the groin shots!

Not just he dialogue either, the story. It seemed like adding the FEV virus to the water would have a major impact, it didn't really, except you can't drink the water at the purifier. Wow, and a couple of random sick people in clinics too.

Dad made no sense. Why pay for Liam Neeson when they didn't bother to make his character something other than a jerk? Frankly, he was just something you had to deal with to get from A to B.

[^~LIL B0NE5~^]

There was a pretty good reason for why/how CL was formed, and the chariot artwork was something that Chris Appelhans just did for fun. We never planned on having CL use chariots (normal or combustion-engine-powered).

I can only base myself from what is currently public knowledge, and from that all I can say is that it really got stuck in my throat no matter how hard I gulped. But if there's more to it than that, then I'd give the benefit of the doubt. (It's good to know the chariot thing wasn't serious though. Even though it did look cool, it was just way too much)

What bothered me most wasn't the general idea so much as the specifics. I mean, I'm not opposed to a faction roughly adopting general ideologies and practices of the Roman Empire (kind of like the Khans) but when they try to emulate it going as far as dressing like them and adopting nomenclatures, that's when things go too far and become silly. The Khans didn't dress up nor called their warriors keshiks, for instance, so they're believable. People dressed as legionaries and using Latin nomenclatures in the middle of a PNA wasteland on the other hand turns it into silver-age theme-park silliness.

[Skrapp Stephens]

I can only base myself from what is currently public knowledge, and from that all I can say is that it really got stuck in my throat no matter how hard I gulped. But if there's more to it than that, then I'd give the benefit of the doubt. (It's good to know the chariot thing wasn't serious though. Even though it did look cool, it was just way too much)

What bothered me most wasn't the general idea so much as the specifics. I mean, I'm not opposed to a faction roughly adopting general ideologies and practices of the Roman Empire (kind of like the Khans) but when they try to emulate it going as far as dressing like them and adopting nomenclatures, that's when things go too far and become silly. The Khans didn't dress up nor called their warriors keshiks, for instance, so they're believable. People dressed as legionaries and using Latin nomenclatures in the middle of a PNA wasteland on the other hand turns it into silver-age theme-park silliness.

While i agree that it could be silly, it woudnt necessarily have to be. the occult value of the roman mythos could be a huge recuitment/brainwashing advantage, depending on aspects are used.

[gary lee]

I hope you'll get to do some similar missions to those of Fallout 2's New Reno where you would work for one of the families that controlled the city and do some boxing like in Jungle Gym which was also in New Reno

[Jerry Jr. Ortiz]

we need some info even a tidbit! something hell rage wont be coming out till 2011 and they have already released alot of info on that game.

[sara OMAR]

Knowing that Sawyer is leading the team gives me a lot of confidence about FO:NV. I remember when VB was being developed and the massive amount of Fan Input they were collecting. Real honest dialog with the fans about what they wanted to see and why and huge discussions over what was possible and how things would work. Sawyer was right there the whole time and I really appreciated his input and insights as well. My point is Guys like that care so much more about making and solid fun experience for the fans as it should be. You don't see that Kind of dedication pride in games much anymore. A true Fan of Fallout 1 and 2 working on this and Obsidian(former members of BIS) being involved in general, should bring a lot of Smiles to the Old school Fallout Fans like Myself.

I for one can't wait... Well OK, I did wait 8 years for Fallout 3 so I guess I can wait. But don't make me wait too long, just as long as necessary to get it done right!

/really devoted fan drool. :fallout:

[gemma king]

They made me move my comment so here it is again. Basically it's that Obsidian blows in my view and hope they don't ruin another series like they did with Neverwinter Nights with linear gameplay, less complex characters, wooden animations, and amateurish modeling.

I got all excited when I heard the Fallout series had a new project in the works called New Vegas slated for release sometime in 2K10, then I read who was developing it, and suddenly felt depressed : Obsidian Entertainment. Really? The same amateur team that single handedly destroyed the Neverwinter Nights series that Bioware had made famous. An impoverished Atari went on the cheap to produce Neverwinter Nights 2, so left the proven Bioware team and went with the crummy upstarts at Obsidian to save a few bucks. Everyone held their breath and crossed their fingers, and then Obsidian dropped the ball, and released a turd. Neverwinter Nights 2 was nothing short of disaster.

What makes anyone think they'll do different with Fallout?

[Dale Johnson]

What makes anyone think they'll do different with Fallout?

I haven't played NWN series so I wouldn't know about that, but to answer the guestion:

Probably the fact that, in Obsidian, there are people who made the original two games (and almost the third in the series). So they do have some inside information about the series since they have worked with it before. I definitely wouldn't call them amateurs.

[Keeley Stevens]

I haven't played NWN series so I wouldn't know about that, but to answer the guestion: I definitely wouldn't call them amateurs.

If you played Neverwinter Nights 1 from Bioware, and then Neverwinter Nights 2 from Obsidian you might.


/

[BrEezy Baby]

i wouldn't mind seeing NV set like 5 years after the war. everything rough with settlements spread through the desert with clans of thieves that raid other settlements

[Umpyre Records]

What makes anyone think they'll do different with Fallout?

Many members of that "Amatuer" team worked on fallout 1 and 2. Its their baby....

(I'm suprised there havent been any harsh responses to your post yet...)

[Kat Lehmann]

What makes anyone think they'll do different with Fallout?

Of course calling Obsidian amateurs is absurd.
I also liked NWN a lot and was disappointed by the sequel - though I couldn't really find it's big flaw... it just didn't 'grab' me soon enough and I quited. Maybe I'll change my view of it if I even go back to it.
But still, you don't need to be that negative. For one Fallout is now given by Beth a completely different (design) 'philosophy' or direction than NWN (which is more similar to the old FOs) which might be more fitting for Obsidian (why not?). + even if NWN2 was indeed such a turd, maybe Obsidian 'learned their lesson' and will show vast improvements... or maybe NWN2 is a good game but absolutely not your cup of tea. In any case, companies change... people come and go, trends change, and we (gamers) also change, so you can't be so certain of what to expect - who foresaw what FO3 would be like after FO2 was released? Then again it was far easier to guess what it would be like after Bethesda got it... but still, Bethesda has a much more consisted style than Obsidian does, which makes the latter far less predictable.

[Laura Cartwright]

They made me move my comment so here it is again. Basically it's that Obsidian blows in my view and hope they don't ruin another series like they did with Neverwinter Nights with linear gameplay, less complex characters, wooden animations, and amateurish modeling.

I found the Neverwinter Nights 2 OC infinitely better than the Neverwinter Nights OC myself; I thought that the original OC was absolutely abysmal. It was one of the worst mainstream RPGs I ever played.

[Ells]

i wouldn't mind seeing NV set like 5 years after the war. everything rough with settlements spread through the desert with clans of thieves that raid other settlements

You do realize that this would mean no super mutants, molerats, deathclaws, BOS and other mutated creatures and factions right?

[Jennie Skeletons]

I found the Neverwinter Nights 2 OC infinitely better than the Neverwinter Nights OC myself; I thought that the original OC was absolutely abysmal. It was one of the worst mainstream RPGs I ever played.

People keep saying that... damn... it seems that weirdo who enjoyed it was me

[Julia Schwalbe]

You do realize that this would mean no super mutants, molerats, deathclaws, BOS and other mutated creatures and factions right?

Great! Some new stuff for a change :dance: Though actually deathclaws are pre-war, so they could just as well be out there. I'd hope not though.

[jodie]

What makes anyone think they'll do different with Fallout?

NWN2 had an extremely chaotic development cycle in part because the team attempted to change too much about the engine in the given amount of time. Completely re-writing the renderer (and UI system) took a huge amount of resources. Adding a new layer to the animation system without fully understanding the existing system was very problematic. Re-doing the collision and pathing systems -- you get the idea. More refactoring and new features would have been a better plan. The company has collectively learned its lesson in this regard.

If you've played Mask of the Betrayer, I hope you believe that we are capable of developing more distinctive characters and less linear gameplay in interesting settings.

[Holli Dillon]

It's been a few years since Neverwinter Nights 2 came out - if the problem with that game was that they were an "amateur" game company compared to Bioware, then perhaps that's changed in the interim; and they've acquired more experience by now. Obsidian's got a deal of history of making sequels and spinoffs from other games, after all.

My only real experience with Obsidian itself, so far, has been with KOTOR 2. And I was largely pleased with that game. It had a couple bugs, but I didn't encounter any more than in the first one - or pretty much any other RPG I've played. And there were a couple of things I didn't like as well (like how the influence system with your party worked out,) but I also can't really blame them for trying something a little bit different that just didn't quite work out as well as I'd hoped, either. I mean, they got points for trying, in my book.

I think probably a more reliable metric is going to be to see how Alpha Protocol turns out. I'm curious to see what they do with that, first. Plus I'm going with the giving them the benefit of the doubt since they've got some people on their team who actually worked on the original Fallout games. I don't see how they can do anything to the franchise that Bethesda already hasn't, personally. (And I actually like Fallout 3 - but I do find it ironic that there's people who are worried about what the remnants of the "original" team of designers are going to do to a franchise, when the last already was a rather large departure from what had gone before...)

Edit: In other words, if I have to be mature about Fallout 3, and remember that regardless of what downfalls a game has, it doesn't affect the "purity" of the other games I hold up as a standard for quality - then I expect the same from everyone else in regards to everything that comes out after Fallout 3. Even if New Vegas turns out to be the "worst" game since Brotherhood of Steel (which I doubt will happen,) the only thing it's going to ruin is itself. Fallout 3 (and the continuation of the series) will remain what it is regardless of what comes after.

It's like the X-Com series. Nothing good ever came of trying to do anything different with the series after X-Com Apocalypse. They weren't what fans were looking for, and weren't even good enough to stand on their own merits as decent games. But none of the flopped spin-offs did anytihng to detract from the quality of the 3 very good games in the series - those are still what they always were. They didn't "ruin" the series - they just didn't add anything good to it.

This is only going to be a win/win for Bethesda itself. If the game is overall highly-regarded, then they still get to take a lot of the credit for it (and I don't know any of the business aspects of it, but probably some of the money, as well.) They might even learn a thing or two by seeing their formula interpreted by another team, which would lead to a better all-round Fallout 4, eventually. If it gets massively panned, then they get to just forget about it and move on - and would probably get everyone hyped even more about Fallout 4 (to see the "real" developers do it right. )

[Casey]

I found the Neverwinter Nights 2 OC infinitely better than the Neverwinter Nights OC myself; I thought that the original OC was absolutely abysmal. It was one of the worst mainstream RPGs I ever played.

To each his own, but the general reviews/ratings are on my side with respect to both NWN1 and NW2 comparatively.

[Micah Judaeah]

What makes anyone think they'll do different with Fallout?

it can't be worse than what beth did to the original. I think, whatever happens to Fallout, it will be better in every way than anything Beth can possibly do in the near future. guys at beth still have a lot to learn about CRPGs because the Elder Scroll series is definitely not RPG, it's 'rogue' (and it's pretty good at that).

anyway, I just wish for 2 things: no GECK and the protagonist to be an Enclave trooper. but in general I'd want this game to be like Planescape: Torment in terms of gameplay (on a related note I really liked what Bioware did in DA: O with the mages tower location and it's line of quests, haven't felt this exited over a game in a long long time).

[Amy Smith]

NWN2 had an extremely chaotic development cycle in part because the team attempted to change too much about the engine in the given amount of time. Completely re-writing the renderer (and UI system) took a huge amount of resources. Adding a new layer to the animation system without fully understanding the existing system was very problematic. Re-doing the collision and pathing systems -- you get the idea. More refactoring and new features would have been a better plan. The company has collectively learned its lesson in this regard.

If you've played Mask of the Betrayer, I hope you believe that we are capable of developing more distinctive characters and less linear gameplay in interesting settings.

Well, I'll just say I was more impressed with KOTOR 2 than I was with NWN2. I actually somewhat enjoyed KOTOR 2. The problem with NWN2 beside the specifics I mentioned (linearity, unnecessarily resource dependent, shoddy modeling, wooden animation, counter intuitive UI etc), it was just how much less everything was. It wasn't as if they added more to a great system, it's that they took away the open world feel and stripped away ability of players. I played NWN2 for about a month before I reached my limit in patience. I was a NWN1 zealot, and found too many dissimilarities to continue. The lack of multilayer functionality was the proverbial final straw - People had to download tons of content just to join servers, and parties had to travel together to move between maps, for example, making it impossible to play online which defeated the purpose/concept of D&D.

I still maintain there were a lot of amateurish elements to NWN2 (animations & spell effects in particular looked abysmal). I'll take your point that they were time restricted and had the wrong gameplan, I just hope Obsidian remembers that Fallout is about its open world and stay away from the restrictive linearity they doomed NWN2 to.