[Barbequtie]

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Obsidian does with the world design.

It will be interesting to see how Obsidian performs in "sandbox" sized environments, but they seem to be able to hold their own regarding level design. Judging by these recent http://www.illuminatelabs.com/gallery/alpha-protocol

[kennedy]

IMO, you seem to be misunderstanding what a dungeon crawl really is. The 'crawl' implies you're struggling with enemies at every corner, so you finally reach your objective at the far end of the dungeon. Simply there being a dungeon, or doing something in a dungeon, is not DC if you don *have* to fight enemies a good deal of the time. If there's nothing to molest you, then there's no crawling, so to speak.

I think you're contradicting yourself within a single post and missing the point. The replicated man and Tenpenny Tower quests aren't entirely composed of dungeon crawling. The extent to which they may involve dungeon crawling is similar to the Necropolis, and less than Vault 15 or the Glow.

And that isn't even relevant to the point, which is that the quests are generally more complicated than Oblivion's straightforward dungeon diving fetch/kill quests.

It will be interesting to see how Obsidian performs in "sandbox" sized environments, but they seem to be able to hold their own regarding level design. Judging by these recent http://www.illuminatelabs.com/gallery/alpha-protocol

I don't have a lot of faith in Obsidian's level design based on their past games and what I've seen from AP. But that won't matter as much if they can make an interesting continuous world with a good character development system and nice quests.

[Eoh]

I think you're contradicting yourself within a single post and missing the point. The replicated man and Tenpenny Tower quests aren't entirely composed of dungeon crawling. The extent to which they may involve dungeon crawling is similar to the Necropolis, and less than Vault 15 or the Glow.

Hm I don't think so. My point wasn't the percentage of DC in F3's quests, but rather that the DC part was unavoidable. You can't finish Tennpenny without talking to Roy in the Tunnels, and to get there you *have* to DC. Same with the android one. F1 did have DC parts, but they were completely optional. And please re-read my post: I argued those quests (the Glow, Necropolis' tunnels) weren't DCs at all. As for Vault 15, it was certainly a DC, but it wasn't really a quest, just an (optional) red herring for the real quest, getting the water chip in vault 12.

[Heather M]

Personally, when I hear "dungeon crawl," I think of a contained area where the goal is nothing more than clearing the level of enemies and searching for loot. (To me,) all of the ruins and fortresses in Oblivion are dungeon crawls. All of the abandoned houses, caves, (most of) the vaults, and old factories, etc, in Fallout 3 are dungeon crawls as well. You're wandering around the world map, and when you come to one of these places, you go in because you want to see if there's any loot to find, do some spelunking, and kill the baddies. Basically, dungeons provide XP and loot - if they have more to offer than that then it's something else.

If you're going into a contained "level" because you're following a quest or sidequest, then I don't think of it as a dungeon crawl. Because there's something larger connected to it. Otherwise, everything is a dungeon crawl. Because a videogame RPG, when you get down to it, is basically a series of contained areas with enemies and loot. The only thing separating the Red Ryder Factory from the Museum is that one is just there for you to find neat things and kill enemies in; and the other one gives you the same thing, but is also important for completing a quest.

By that definition, neither Fallout 1 or 2 really had any dungeon crawls to speak of. You might go into an area for no other reason than looking for loot and gaining XP, but 9 times out of 10 you're going to come out with a sidequest, or later find it's connected to one.

That also doesn't mean there's anything wrong with dungeons, either. And as far as Fallout 3 goes, they're all very good dungeons, as well. Each one is it's own unique little vignette, and finding out the story to each one is also another "carrot" to lead the player through these dungeons. I'd say that so far Fallout 3 has the very best dungeons that I've played in recent memory.

[Jade Muggeridge]

Hm I don't think so. My point wasn't the percentage of DC in F3's quests...

Well, if that wasn't your point, then you probably shouldn't have bothered to reply to Talonfire in the first place, because that's pretty much what you wrote. If you're just pointing out that the player must sneak by or kill a handful of ghouls in order to complete a much more complicated quest, then you have greatly misrepresented your position.

And you can skip the mirelurks in the Replicated Man quest if you've got the skills.

[Killah Bee]

Well, if that wasn't your point, then you probably shouldn't have bothered to reply to Talonfire in the first place, because that's pretty much what you wrote. If you're just pointing out that the player must sneak by or kill a handful of ghouls in order to complete a much more complicated quest, then you have greatly misrepresented your position.

And you can skip the mirelurks in the Replicated Man quest if you've got the skills.

Huh... please pay more attention to my posts. That wasn't my point in my reply to Follaut, not Talonfire. My point in replying to Talonfire was... well, there was none, I was just curious and wanted to know why he thought DC wasn't a big part of F3. I wasn't trying to make any points there. And what are you reffering to in the second sentence? Tennpeny Tower or Necropolis?

And yes, it seems you can lockpick a shortcut at the broken bowl if you have 100 LP skill. Didn't know that.

[Kill Bill]

Personally, when I hear "dungeon crawl," I think of a contained area where the goal is nothing more than clearing the level of enemies and searching for loot. (To me,) all of the ruins and fortresses in Oblivion are dungeon crawls. All of the abandoned houses, caves, (most of) the vaults, and old factories, etc, in Fallout 3 are dungeon crawls as well. You're wandering around the world map, and when you come to one of these places, you go in because you want to see if there's any loot to find, do some spelunking, and kill the baddies. Basically, dungeons provide XP and loot - if they have more to offer than that then it's something else.

If you're going into a contained "level" because you're following a quest or sidequest, then I don't think of it as a dungeon crawl. Because there's something larger connected to it. Otherwise, everything is a dungeon crawl. Because a videogame RPG, when you get down to it, is basically a series of contained areas with enemies and loot. The only thing separating the Red Ryder Factory from the Museum is that one is just there for you to find neat things and kill enemies in; and the other one gives you the same thing, but is also important for completing a quest.

By that definition, neither Fallout 1 or 2 really had any dungeon crawls to speak of. You might go into an area for no other reason than looking for loot and gaining XP, but 9 times out of 10 you're going to come out with a sidequest, or later find it's connected to one.

That also doesn't mean there's anything wrong with dungeons, either. And as far as Fallout 3 goes, they're all very good dungeons, as well. Each one is it's own unique little vignette, and finding out the story to each one is also another "carrot" to lead the player through these dungeons. I'd say that so far Fallout 3 has the very best dungeons that I've played in recent memory.

I do agree most RPGs are DCs as well. But that doesn't mean everything is DC. Fallout 1 for instance, you could DC, but it also had an actually viable (and greatly entertaining at that) option of no DCing at all. And IMO, that was the big differential F1 had over most other RPGs. And F3, on the other hand, does not. F2 had it's share of necessary DCs, and it was one of my biggest gripes with it, but on the whole it still did allow you a much greater degree of freedom than most. F3 however is almost entirely DCing. That's not to say DC in F3 was bad or anything, but rather it was almost the whole game. And that's a symptom of the combat-centric stance Bethesda has which while prevalent among RPG's, completely differs from the original's philosophy. There are very few quests in F3 in which you can actually bypass DC mode (and incidentally, those in which do also happens to be the best ones).

[Lifee Mccaslin]

Huh... please pay more attention to my posts. That wasn't my point in my reply to Follaut, not Talonfire. My point in replying to Talonfire was... well, there was none, I was just curious and wanted to know why he thought DC wasn't a big part of F3. I wasn't trying to make any points there. And what are you reffering to in the second sentence? Tennpeny Tower or Necropolis?

And yes, it seems you can lockpick a shortcut at the broken bowl if you have 100 LP skill. Didn't know that.

Like I said I'm aware that there are dungeon crawls in Fallout 3, and more than I would have liked in a Fallout game, but my point was that the quests were generally far more diverse and interesting than the quests in Oblivion. Fallout 3 had a larger variety of quests that weren't all about going to a dungeon to kill or recover something while in Oblivion that was essentially how 90-93% of the quests were setup.

Personally, when I hear "dungeon crawl," I think of a contained area where the goal is nothing more than clearing the level of enemies and searching for loot. (To me,) all of the ruins and fortresses in Oblivion are dungeon crawls. All of the abandoned houses, caves, (most of) the vaults, and old factories, etc, in Fallout 3 are dungeon crawls as well. You're wandering around the world map, and when you come to one of these places, you go in because you want to see if there's any loot to find, do some spelunking, and kill the baddies. Basically, dungeons provide XP and loot - if they have more to offer than that then it's something else.

"Dungeon crawl" may have been a poor choice of words, but I couldn't think of a better way to describe Oblivion's design.

[Josh Trembly]

"Dungeon crawl" may have been a poor choice of words, but I couldn't think of a better way to describe Oblivion's design.

No, I think you were dead on with Oblivion. Much of the game...the mines, the ruins, the black gates, are all dungeon crawls. Kill everything for boss loot. To me, that's the definition.

The best example of a dungeon crawl in fO3 is Dunwich. Clear the dungeon; get a bobblehead. Same could be said about the Deathclaw and Yao Gui caves. There are some smaller examples, there aren't nearly as many as in Oblivion and many other RPGS.

Note that I LIKE dungeon crawls.

[Kellymarie Heppell]

Dungeon crawling doesn't bug me as long as it's designed well.. I can't stand oblivion's dungeons and avoid them completely if possible.. FO3 dungeons all feel unique and handmade, sure they have similar looks but it is obvious that they aren't randomly generated, and alot of them have little easter eggs to find, things like the ghoul with the nuka cola collection, the mole rat experimenter, Lug nut, the list goes on and on.. In my opinion the whole world of FO3 feels way more hand crafted than OB does and for me gives a ton more incentive to explore, if for no other reason than to just find the tons of things that the devs placed around the wastes, makes it feel way more like a real world...

[Naomi Ward]

dungeon crawling is kinda a part of RPGs, which I dont mind,

In fallout 3, alot of the vaults and ruins have a backstory, and I live to find those backstorys, it adds alot to the regular DC

but I'd like like some more "wow" moments, like finding a prototype liberty prime in a bunker and activating it, and not just for a quest, just a discovery

[Marina Leigh]

The problem is not dungeon crawling itself, just that if the game revolves around dungeon crawling, then that means that the game also revolves around combat. Non combat alternatives are, when they exist at all, merely an afterthought addon. And while that's how many RPGs, particularly console RPGs, work, that's not how Fallout worked, nor, IMO, should.

[Pawel Platek]

there should be double the amount of quests both storyline and side quests. thats what i want. oh and a nice shiny home in a vegas hotel.

[Amelia Pritchard]

Like I said before the ability to fix a car and drive it around would be nice. And like Reno, if you leave it for too long unattended in Vegas it'll get stolen. I don't see why this can't happen, if Reno was mostly spared the atomic fire then Vegas must still be standing and in decent working order too (they are both in Nevada). Things like vehicles and other machinery should still be in working order unlike the ones in DC which existed solely to be blown up.

[Jynx Anthropic]

Like I said before the ability to fix a car and drive it around would be nice. And like Reno, if you leave it for too long unattended in Vegas it'll get stolen. I don't see why this can't happen, if Reno was mostly spared the atomic fire then Vegas must still be standing and in decent working order too (they are both in Nevada). Things like vehicles and other machinery should still be in working order unlike the ones in DC which existed solely to be blown up.

I agree about the fallout 3 cars, but I wouldn't want to make NV a racinggame (or even having a semi-racing aspect to it), not my cup of tea.

Imo, the players shouldn't get a personal car unless it was only used as a mean of traveling on the world map. And I don't see that happening, so my suggestion is this:

If there should be working cars, make them a mean of fast travel. Owned by a faction(s), and at a cost you get to fasttravel between settlements, but not all caves and ruins and whatnot - and thus discard the teleportation fast travel for good. They could set up waypoints, so that you could drop off at a location between settlement A and B thats close enough or on the route. The settlements could be arranged around the map so that this method could practically deliver you anywhere on the map, but - as said - not directly if the location is off the route. A little walking only does you good .

E - The locations near or on the waypoint route could also work as placements for possible on-travel random encounters.

[Sarah Unwin]

the players shouldn't get a personal car unless it was only used as a mean of traveling on the world map

that's exactly why a car should have been included in F3 in the first place: fast travel. I think it would be cool if the devs made this option available only after you aquire the car via a quest.

[Dominic Vaughan]

I wouldn't mind "instant" fast travel being replaced with a car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CsLYRViuEc&fmt=18,) but I really like what Van Buren had planned for fast travel: repair old railroad lines and travel via train car.

[Stryke Force]

Personally, I don't like having to jump through too many hoops when I just want to get quickly from point A to point B. So long as I'm not inside a building or in combat, I much rather prefer just being able to point to where I want to go on a map and find myself there. Like going to the bathroom and other extraneous actions, I figure monotonous travel is something that can be relegated to the category of things that you don't necessarily need to see to assume that they're happening.

Random encounters and the like are always good, though. I just wouldn't want to have to go through a "middle man" before I'd be allowed to get where I want to go (ie, find the nearest train station or vehicle, etc...) If it conferred some sort of moderately useful bonus, and was otherwise optional, that would be another thing. For instance it was incredibly helpful to have your car with you in Fallout 2 even if you didn't really need it to get from point A to point B. It just got you there quicker (and made it easier to run away from random encounters as well.) Or if say you had the option of bypassing random encounters when travelling by vehicle as opposed to on foot (or had a chance of getting that option, etc...)

In other words, I don't mind if there's "extra" stuff to add to the fast travel mechanic; I just don't want it to have to be vitally necessary to find the nearest "teleporter" before I can go where I want quickly.

[Loane]

IF the projected release date is 2010, when can we expect some more info, or even a teaser trailer?

Well my biggest worry about this game is that beth is not developing it, while im sure theyre watching development closely, obsidian is in the driver seat. I just hope its as addicting as fallout 3

Well, Obsidian have a lot of the former creator of the first fallout games, so the fallout feeling should be in the game,

[Trista Jim]

i would like some info about new vegas also. i thought for sure we would get something after the GOTY came out. it has been almost 1 full month since then and we have nothing why do they gotta play with my emotions!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Daramis McGee]

Interview with Chris Avellone

Game Publishers seem to prefer simple games, even though more complex games can achieve higher sales (Witcher 1.5 million, Stalker 2.5 million) and ratings - why is that?

I'm biased because I work in RPGs, but I don't think game publishers look for simple games - they look for specific genres to fill niches in their game portfolios, and they're actually pretty good at recognizing that some games (notably RPGs) need to have a certain complexity to appeal to folks because, well, that's the genre.

They want to bank on sure things and they are understandably risk-adverse because of the amount of money involved in making games, however, so whether or not to use franchises and making games similar to existing successful games definitely factors in more strongly when those discussions come up (if given the choice between a brand new sci-fi RPG versus doing a Star Wars RPG, it's really no contest from a publisher point of view). It's easy to criticize them for this, but I don't personally have 20 million dollars to piss away, and if I did, I'd probably be just as careful with how I spent it and mitigate the risk accordingly.

http://grupo97.halconesrojos.com/index.php/artlos-mainmenu-28/13-rol/365-chrisavelloneinterview

No New Vegas questions sadly, sorry if I got your hopes up.

[Samantha Wood]

Has there been any word on how closely Bethesda will be controlling the development of this game? I mean, I have faith in Obsidian and all, but I like what Beth did with Fallout 3, and I don't want any radical changes.

And remember, this is my opinion, no need to flame me about how you think Obsidian is awesome and Beth is terrible or anything like that, ok?

[Lizs]

I think FNV is going to be great, combining the fallout 3 engines with fallout 1 and 2's original creators is a golden deal.
I always liked fallout 3 but I always thought it had so much mroe potential and Fallout: New Vegas will hopefully be the fallout 3 I wished I had.
I hope they add that faction from Van Buren, the roman-like slavers. They look kick-ass.
I also hope Obsidian will take a look at all the great things the modders of Fallout 3 made.

[Leonie Connor]

I think FNV is going to be great, combining the fallout 3 engines with fallout 1 and 2's original creators is a golden deal.
I always liked fallout 3 but I always thought it had so much mroe potential and Fallout: New Vegas will hopefully be the fallout 3 I wished I had.
I hope they add that faction from Van Buren, the roman-like slavers. They look kick-ass.
I also hope Obsidian will take a look at all the great things the modders of Fallout 3 made.

Oh geez, not Caesar's Legion, please no... Getting rid of them was almost worth VB getting axed :meh:

[XPidgex Jefferson]

Oh geez, not Caesar's Legion, please no... Getting rid of them was almost worth VB getting axed :meh:

What was so bad about them?