Great game, horrible magic system

Post » Fri May 11, 2012 8:52 am

Cast fury on one guy, paralyze on the other.

lulz.
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Sheila Esmailka
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 9:30 am

Is everyone here saying how mages rock and they one shot creatures playing on master? On anything below expert it really doesn't matter what you play or how things are balanced, so it's not contributing too much to the debate.
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Joie Perez
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 2:21 pm

I'm kicking ass as a pure mage here. I'm on expert, as well. Not sure what the OP is doing.

I think it's important to have Conjuration in action with a summoned creature to help you out. Then I just wipe them out with destruction...

And, if I am particularly bloodthirsty, I'll slice off someone's head with my summoned sword.
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Alexander Horton
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 8:05 am

Is it possible to max out all perks across the 5 schools?
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luke trodden
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 9:14 pm

Im not having a impossible time but its still difficult, more so seeing as I'm not using robes with magicka regen. Found myself using a shield and magic, which by the way is a blast. Conjured weapons seem way more powerful than their material counterparts but that may be down to my perks/skill level.

So far I'm loving being a mage.
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Joey Bel
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 6:18 pm

Use all your schools people! Destruction and restro are great, but alteration and illusion combined with conjuration are what will define mages in the higher levels. And please stop this "Oh, if you're playing on novice" and "You must not be playing on master!". Your damn right, some of us play on Adept or anywhere in between. Respect the middle people.
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Laurenn Doylee
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 2:32 pm

Use all your schools people! Destruction and restro are great, but alteration and illusion combined with conjuration are what will define mages in the higher levels. And please stop this "Oh, if you're playing on novice" and "You must not be playing on master!". Your damn right, some of us play on Adept or anywhere in between. Respect the middle people.

You can play on whatever you like, but I think the argument is evolving here to the idea that magic is weaker in comparison to melee and bows, not that it's impossible. On lower difficulties the balance doesn't matter and we're no longer arguing the same points.
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ANaIs GRelot
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 7:59 pm

I really don’t think it’s that bad, although I do agree about melee users always having a way to attack.

I started off going for a melee character, but then ended up being a mage in armour that switches to a 2H if his mana runs out. After a while I changed to robes due to the bonuses you get that are pretty nice and finally I got rid of all my weapons.

I found a hood that gives me 100% increase in mana regeneration, a robe that gives +50 base mana and +100% regeneration and I still find that I constantly run out of mana which seems like a major flaw to me, although I am hoping that if I find the right gloves and boots it will improve.

My final strategy is to first summon a monster to help, than give myself an armour boost after which I fire a fire ball at the biggest target and finally summon a bow that I use while my mana recharges. If I’m feeling brave I will summon two swords and just charge in.

The biggest downside is that after investing 5 times into health, I still end up getting killed in two hits although most are no match for my bound weapons and spells.
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D IV
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 5:36 pm

I found a hood that gives me 100% increase in mana regeneration, a robe that gives +50 base mana and +100% regeneration and I still find that I constantly run out of mana which seems like a major flaw to me, although I am hoping that if I find the right gloves and boots it will improve.
Actually I've found something kind of strange. I've been playing a pure mage, and attempted to play the game on the master difficulty. It worked out alright for the first few hours, though I found some spells, like wards to be completely useless because they drained all your mana in a few seconds. At a certain point I found that it had become absolutely ridiculous to try to play on that difficulty and just brought it down to adept.

Here's what's strange though, I had the same problem you had, even with 250% extra magic regeneration I barely discerned a difference from stock regeneration, and was still unable to use a lot of spells. That is until a couple of hours ago when suddenly I found my mana regenerating so fast that I am now unable to even run out of it, and it's now regenerating while casting spells, where it wasn't before.

So either I was bugged before and was regenerating magic too slowly, or am now bugged and am regenerating it too fast. Or I've somehow managed to activate some hidden cheat code but I find that unlikely. Regardless, I feel that I was way too weak before and am way WAY too strong now.
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Laura Wilson
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 3:37 pm

I really don’t think it’s that bad, although I do agree about melee users always having a way to attack.

I started off going for a melee character, but then ended up being a mage in armour that switches to a 2H if his mana runs out. After a while I changed to robes due to the bonuses you get that are pretty nice and finally I got rid of all my weapons.

I found a hood that gives me 100% increase in mana regeneration, a robe that gives +50 base mana and +100% regeneration and I still find that I constantly run out of mana which seems like a major flaw to me, although I am hoping that if I find the right gloves and boots it will improve.

My final strategy is to first summon a monster to help, than give myself an armour boost after which I fire a fire ball at the biggest target and finally summon a bow that I use while my mana recharges. If I’m feeling brave I will summon two swords and just charge in.

The biggest downside is that after investing 5 times into health, I still end up getting killed in two hits although most are no match for my bound weapons and spells.

Conjuring weapons is a good way to maximize your last bit of magicka, and in my opinion makes it more cost effective than destruction. Though, I think this is the gripe that is consuming most people. Unlike warriors or rogues, we mages run out of our main attack 3/4's to 1/2 way through the battle and need to run away or funnel magicka potions. For those kind of circumstances you'd think we should do more damage/affect more situations with spells.
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Isaac Saetern
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 3:20 pm

A little off topic but, does anyone know if there is a unlock spell? I see no mention of it in the guide.
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Stacyia
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 7:31 pm

My neighbour is playing a pure mage and he owns everything. I find myself having to stop and heal, he just blows things up in one shot. Like he everythin, it doesn't matter what enemies.
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Leonie Connor
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 5:21 pm

If you wear light armor instead of robes, mages are incredibly powerful. Especially with the right destruction and restoration perks, of which several useful ones can be picked fairly early.
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Valerie Marie
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 12:24 pm

Off topic, but I just wanted to say cheers to Kheldor for playing a non-Conjuration Nord with a sensible backstory and sticking to it. My pure mage is a Dunmer who is a Conjuration specialist, so I can't really comment on the viability of non-Conjuration mages. But anyway, cool character and I hope you can make him work out.
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Jeffrey Lawson
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 7:37 pm

Well, one thing is for sure here - Removing Spellcraft is a huge step backwards.
Other that that, i'd say it all improved quite a bit.
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GLOW...
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 9:17 am

It adds challenge. If you don't like challenge, play tgm. Also if you are a "pure Mage", you shouldn't run out of magicka. I barely ever run out of magicka, and I'm an archer.
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Verity Hurding
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 3:53 pm

ITT: Wizards thinking Destruction is the only school of magic

You're a Pure Mage. Use everything you have.

Out of "everything" in a mages arsenal, only 20% of it is geared towards offensive combat. While a fighter has unlimited defensive and offensive maneuvers, mages have limited volume of both (IE: magic bar).

90% of the game is combat, 20% of the mages arsenal is reliable in combat. Do you see the discrepancy here?


Pure magic is not reliable at all for combat, and since most of the game is about combat.....



It's undeniable that magic is very effective for blowing peons off the face of the earth, but it is not reliable for primary combat. The second you are out a magica, you have no means of defense. Mages make for dangerous "supporting combatants" but for what they need to invest in their magicka bar and magic skills themselves, they have absolutely no means of last ditch defense, whereas fighters can always keep swinging.
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Marie Maillos
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 5:17 am

It adds challenge. If you don't like challenge, play tgm. Also if you are a "pure Mage", you shouldn't run out of magicka. I barely ever run out of magicka, and I'm an archer.
Just to rephrase that, you rarely run out of magicka because you are an archer. :P

Tho now that people mentioned it, the mana regen really is weird, I should have 200% bonus, but it's not really much faster than when i wear leather armor, heh.
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Horse gal smithe
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 9:54 am

Spellcrafting was completely inbalancing.
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sarah taylor
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 5:02 am

I've had no issues at all playing as a pure mage. I'm level 25 at the moment. Killed 15+ Dragons and done many many quests. I can kill Dragons without even emptying my Magicka pool.
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Sophie Louise Edge
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 7:23 am

Let me preface with the fact that thus far I love the game overall, am a PC elitist, I've only had 1 crash in a full day of playing 2 characters, dislike greatly some of the interface changes (and no hotkeys for the pc, at least that I can find, so I hate the "Favorites" system). Some of the story lines and huge lore changes I disagree with/vehemently don't like, some I love, but that's for another thread.

A pure mage is not a viable character in Skyrim.

The magic system in Skyrim is abysmal.
Unlike melee, where even with no stamina and no ability to do power moves, you can still swing your weapon. With no magicka, you can't do anything as a mage except run.
The spell costs are not even high, they are stupendously stupidly high.
Beyond the fact that cloth has no armor value and enchanting stinks as bad as it did in Oblivion (yeah, the ability to put one buff on a piece of armor..yay), which makes pure mages take a horrible beating compared to a character even in light armor. A mage will be out of magicka right after the fight starts, and carrying around 200 magicka potions is not a viable means of trying to go on as a mage character.

Finally, removing spellcrafting from the game just adds insult to injury to those of us who wanted to play a mage, Bethesda. You could have made a vastly improved spellcrafting system (even though the one in Oblivion was pretty good as it was, especially after adding the Supreme Magicka mod) but instead, you pretty much guaranteed no one will be able to play a mage in Skyrim, and if they even decided to suffer through some how (god mode for the win I guess) why bother when, without spellcrafting, the magic system is boring by default.

Oh yeah, on top of all that, thanks for putting in all the little stories about npc mages researching this spell or creating that spell. Seems the npcs can do it, but the players can't.

Can't wait til mods start rolling out to change all this mage abuse. However, it would be a helluva lot better Bethesda, if you put out a patch to add spellcrafting and reduce the grossly high magicka costs of simple spells, let alone the higher end spells. Evidently some "savant" at Bethesda thought a mage could actually kill 5 bad guys when only able to cast enough spells that can actually kill ONE bad guy. Better yet, I want someone at Bethesda to make a mage, use only the spells in the game, and just try to kill a giant and his pet mammoth on your own. Let me know how that works out for ya...

By the way, to reiterate, I'm talking about "pure" mages here, not battlemages.

To end, no I'm not nerd raging, no I'm not frothing at the mouth (any more than normal) no I'm not even shrieking a little bit. This was my discovery of creating a mage and trying to play him, and subsequently deleting his worthless carcass.

"my mage feels more and more powerfull as I gain spells and perks and increase my mana pool... it was trully difficult at first, even hired mercs to help me out... but once I got spells and mana pool to support it, I trully started to feel powerfull and standing toe to toe against leaders, bosses and dragons.

the buildup I been using is one heavily focused on destruction mainly for dishing out dmg, and alteration with restoration for defence and support.
am also planning a new character with new buildup using sumons and companions and supporting them with restoration, conjuring and illusion. "

I dont know what you been doing but I think its prly a lack of adaptation on your part?
I play on max difficulty, as I do with all my rpg's and am doing quite well and am having great fun througout the game.
costs are high that is very true, but thats why in this game you have to focus on 3 schools, 4 maximum, and get those core spells (destruction and alteration in my case) with a high skill and assorted perks.
people here saying to spread your skills, use all schools, dont do that... its a TERRIBE thing to do cuz you simply wont have the required skill levels and perks to make them work well.
dont forget that rolling altmer as usual, gives you a huge gameplay/facilitation in the early game, and that the first priority of quests should be the mage ones, take the cart to winterhold, you get acess to lovely spells, souls, and enchanted mage gear.

I was sad about not having spellcrafting aswell, but honestly with the dual spell system and the perks, its definetely not that big a deal.
if you are more specific about what buildup you are using and what cases in particular do you feel "gimped" maybe we can help more?
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Theodore Walling
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 4:18 pm

Aye, I'm quite a bit underwhelmed. Simple matter of fact being, my spells are doing far less damage to monsters than a companion with a sword.

That's because NPCs, including Companions/Summons, scale with the difficulty as well. On Master, a NPC with 100 Two-Handed and a Greatsword, will do more damage than a player with 100 Two-Handed and a Greatsword. Scaling, which is why Conjuration is so important for a Mage in Skyrim.
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Honey Suckle
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 3:52 pm

Actually what SKyrim has forced me to do is actually untilize all my spells.

I almost never used calm, frenzy, or rally spells. Sheild spells alwayts felt arbitrary in Oblivion, (they were useful in Morrowind though), but now I'm really hacing to think of all spells.

Calm is actually extremely useful for getting out of hairy situations. the ward spells are quite useful as well if you act quick enough to put it up. Summons are also your best friend.

like others have said you have to use all schools of magic.

the outrageously high cost for spells is countering the fact that you can cast all of them at lvl 1. There's a reason why those perks exist that reduce the cost of spells as you get powerful.

you do have to be clever. Also alchemy is your best friend as potions that increase speech/other schools of magic or utility skills are very useful.

Feel the same way as Hager. Playing on master difficulty with another save and pure mage is a lot of fun but also very challenging (as if the difficulty wasn't enough).

I find that having an Atronach up with a companion really turns the tables, although those frost atronachs love to block the doorways. Conjuration is just absolutely crucial for survival at this level of difficulty.
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marie breen
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 1:48 pm

I miss the spell crafting, but it allowed you to become uber-conquering. Hell, I had a paralyse-drain health spell that took down anything in a couple of hits...they would be dead before they hit the ground.

Mind you, I would like that now against these damned dragons...I'm level 10 and tired of being cripsy fried.
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Charlie Sarson
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 4:34 pm

I'm starting to think the problem is how magic is built around those half magicka cost perks. As Canen already mentioned, you don't want to spread across multiple skills because you'll just be too weak without the required perks. However, you can't be diverse if you don't spread out.

Those perks are important, nay, mandatory to actually use magic as your primary means of survival. Unfortunately, bows and melee weapons have most of their power built in. The perks for those weapons help, but are not mandatory to continue swinging.
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leigh stewart
 
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