oh yes I forgot to add online multiplayer only (not even LAN) has also done a number on gaming as many great times I had gaming involved big parties at someone's house with good food good people and great games... now it's sign on and listen to an army of squeeking preteens getting way too hurt over a video game.

I know what you mean these days finding gems for personal preference does get a bit hard and the screaming masses trying to tear down every game because it does not fit in a specific overly cloned mold does tend to make it hard to stay quiet.

to add to USREVENGE's post i shall name all the vid game series that has been torn apart by modern gaming/developers/publishers. tenchu, castlevania, quake, final fantasy, duke nukem, deus ex, system shock(bioshock), tomb raider, syphon filter, turok, james bond, destroy all humans, resident evil (still good games but not really survival horror anymore) command and conquer, elder scrolls(skyrim still an incredible game, but gameplay has been hurt), hell even MW3 is a complete mess since they tried to appeal to a broader audience. as if they needed more customers the greedy swine. thats off the top of my head but if i get my collection out i will spot more easy.

predictions for more series beat down- diablo 3, hitman absolution, xcom,

I read a few posts in here bashing Call of Duty, saying nothing has changed since CoD4, and I just have to say that is a load of crap. I LOVED CoD4. I probably put in over 20 days of play time into it (yeah, seriously 20 days). If modded lobbies didn't plague the Xbox version, I'd STILL be playing it. However, I found Modern Warfare 2 to play quite differently, and I HATED it. Yes, to outsiders, not much has changed. To them, it seems like a $60 map pack with a few new guns. But I realized that the gameplay was sped up, due to "payback respawns" and practically non-existent recoil on assault rifles, among other things. All the little things that change add up and are responsible for a similar-looking game that plays much differently.

Now, as for Skyrim and other big games, I think the main problem is that developers focus too much on what looks pretty. We are in the era of gamers that are absolutely OBSESSED with graphics. That obsession leads to developers putting much more time into the graphics and art detail (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), however, the other areas of the game suffer due to tight budgets, a time limit, and not enough man-power. Good graphics are important, but it seems like most games today don't have much depth or a learning curve, which concerns me.

And now you see developers removing content in favor of DLC (ex: Saints Row: The Third), which is just sad. If gamers would stop buying those overpriced pieces of crap DLC, we would have one less problem in the gaming industry. But the companies are out to make money, and they will do all they can to make some cash. I can't say I blame them, I'm just not much of a fan of video games in the last five years or so. I think Skyrim is one of the better games out there today, but if this is a sign of the future, I'll probably put the controller down and find another hobby.

You're talking companies, I was talking individuals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Spector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Levine_%28game_developer%29

And no, I never said anything about thief aging well visually, nothing even close. And no, these games aren't actually leagues above anything else.


Played Bloodlines, it was a good game but Bioshock, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2, etc. are better games than Bloodlines was. Bloodlines had decent dialogue and story yes - not better however, and everything else about it was pretty lacking relatively. Never played a Fable game.

I've gotta disagree, Thief 2 and Deus Ex are good enough games IMO, that even with the graphics and physics being god-awful by today's standards, they still play better than many current titles. There really is no game like the first Deus Ex, I have yet to play anything that comes close.

completely agreed. but i have a solution, wait for it..... increase the price of games! if it means we get more games with decent and complex gameplay, games with little hand holding, no cuts from the game for dlc, passionate developers and games that use more than one colour palette then im all for it. production values have increased but game prices have not? maybe im missing something here or its a conspiracy.

Yeah I do get this.

In saying do you think it's also part of being such a big gamer?Fatigue based on the years and your personal history?

I ask because I question this myself in regards to my own opinion on modern gaming.I agree some stinkers are out there but has'nt there always been?

The same, for me, could be said about movies.I've seen some classics over 50 times yet most of the modern stuff is a let-down/turn-off.As such is it that the movies today are really that bad or is it, much like most mass-media these days, that I have over-exposed my self and now base my opinion on the quality of the greats from the past, which is a high pedestal to place judgement from.

Example:My cousin plays some games today I can't stand....but he's 12 and loves some of them to death.Is he really that wrong or have I just played games for to long?

It's either nostalgia or you just have an extremely narrow preference for a certain type of gameplay.

Have you played Chronicles of Riddike: Escape from Butcher Bay?

No I have not.

I would say it's nostalgia except i've played them both recently, like past couple of months.

If you get past the physics and visuals (easy for me because i'm pretty old), they really are better in many ways - specifically engaging stealth gameplay and choice - than so many games made today.

Deus Ex is amazing compared to many modern games based simply on how many different distinct ways to play the game are possible, and all or most are even fun!

The thief series are good enough games that someone built a Thief 1 & 2 based mod system for Doom 3..its called Darkmod, and I reccomend it to anyone who likes the old thief games.

bloodlines is my least fav of the 4 beasts but not a chance in hell DAO ME or biosvck are better games. im done with you because you make me mad/sad

yes ive played chronic of riddike. nothing special. good atmosphere and immersion, but gameplay got repetitive quick, just like mass romance effect & co

exactly. same. they are superior. from level design to story to gameplay depth and freedom to music (ok that last ones opinion, but many others too) and just overall complexity/intelligence of the game design.

You know it could be gaming fatigue, but not so much there are some games out there that honestly do not deserve the price tag they are often given while others are often never given the credit they are due. There is a lot of great games out there to play and I personally have enjoyed a lot over the years even ones that are found by others to be inferior to another game or a previous version in the series, but after 26 years of gaming I grew into accepting change in the gaming world and tend to not over think on what i am playing and instead focus on what i am enjoying. Now I have bought a few duds ones I played through once and never touched again then there are those I keep going back to simply because there was something unique enough and enjoyable to keep me coming back. There are games years back that i will always go back and play not just because of nostalgia, but because it was a great game of it's time and still holds an enjoyable quality to it like the original contra for arcade and NES. What i see from new generation of gamers is they give me the impression that they lack the appreciation for games and gaming and tend to use it as an outlet to deal with some kind of inferiority complex. They often tend to be very narrow minded and cling to a small variety of games that they desperately defend by berating other games and obsessing over their flaws to justify why their game must be the only game of choice. It's pretty sad.

Nostalgia can linger, I still feel it when I occasionally play Morrowind and other old games again. I just recognize it for what it is now. You can get past outdated physics and visuals much easier with games you've already played, at least I can.

Anyway, stealth games are a more rare genre than RPGs so I can sort of feel your pain there, but Riddike was extremely solid. I don't think lack of good stealth games has anything to do with a decline in gaming there just aren't a lot of real stealth releases period. There's also Metal Gear Solid which got very high praise, but since it's a console title I haven't played it.

Consoles got a lot of good stealth titles aside from metal gear. It was why even though I primarily stay with pc gaming I own consoles so I do not have to miss out on titles that are not available for PC.

I don't even necessarily believe gaming has declined on the whole...I think the demographics have shifted alot though, and now games that really get someone like me going are rarer..at least from big developers. Still one of the best games i've played in years is Mount and Blade, which I bought as a beta like eight years ago...

The problem is that a big company would never make a game like that, because the big companies can't really take risks the way they used to it seems.

I don't get the fascination with modern Bioware games..i've found them all terribly underwhelming and i'm puzzled what people see in them.

yeah I am a bit confused there and laughed a bit as I am unsure what games he is talking about nor was my post directed towards him, but in a general point of view simply of how I noticed the mass, not all, but the mass majority of younger generation gamers tend to view games and how they tend to act toward games and gaming in general that fall outside of their preference.

The thing is though Old Hermit. All of your posts are simply your opinion aren't they? Who are you to say I'm considering Baldurs Gate through rose tinted glasses? Do you know me? Do you know who the people you group together as "a lot of people think the golden age for gaming" are? Try to be objective, because otherwise you're not making any kind of point, you're just providing your opinion on how you think things are/were.

In my opinion Mass Effect is weak in comparison to the Baldurs Gate games and Fallout 1 & 2. Fallout 2, I finished playing again for ooo rough approximation, the 7th time just last week. The Mass Effect games I played through to completion a few months after their release. Fallout 2 is the better game.

That's my opinion, which like yours is just that, an opinion.

The fact that you are arguing about a time period that you didn't experience makes me frustrated as hell. I would expect it from the younger generation though.

I never listened to Led Zepplin or Pink Floyd and thought "So thats what it was like in the 70's."

If you didn't play 80's video games when thats all there was then you don't know how it felt. Heres the thing though:

I never said 80's games were better. They're 2 totally different styles. My point was that games weren't as sophisticated back then and to play them back then as an advlt meant that you were "not normal". Most of the games from the 80's were abolut challenge and they were very technical.

There was no orchestra to accompany you like in Skyrim, there weren't super computers to make the game world as emmersive as games today, and the interent wasn't around to make it cool when you told some European to "svck your dough bag"

It was very small minded and we knew that....even as kids. Thats why we think so many games are dumbed down. B/c with every generation it seems those rough edges remain b/c there are always new gamers that have to be introduced to things the same [censored] over and over and over.

Take Zelda: OoT for example. I played the 80's and early 90's Zeldas where there were loads of enemies on the screen, there was no fairy to tell you where to go next, and if you didn't have freinds or Nintendo Power you didn't continue the game b/c there was no where to find out where to go next. You were completely on your own. I was baffled at OoT. I ran to Hyrule Castle at night one time and ran into 2 enemies on the way......2! AND from the get go I could run right past them. There was no point.

To sum up. The ppl that have played for a long time still have to endure the new gamer friendly crap b/c there are always new gamers.

my bad- i was just sayin games like mass effect have a place in the industry too, but should never, ever be claimed superior to deus ex

I agree, however, I think people throw the word "nostalgia" around way too much. Just because a person prefers an older game doesn't always = nostalgia. It can be, but that's not always the case. Like with me, my first Elder Scrolls game was Oblivion. I thought it was fun and a good game, but then years later, I played Morrowind. I admit, with no previous experience with that game, it took me several months to get past the outdated graphics and physics. But once I finally sat down and played it thoroughly, I found Morrowind to be a much better game, at least for me.

I just wish people would stop using the term 'nostalgia' as a way to combat fans of older titles. Many people just cannot accept the fact that newer games aren't always better (and on the flip side, older games are not always better). I also get a bit irritated by people using the word 'better' in an objective way about the overall game. Unless you go into great detail, or use a different word (such as 'complex' or 'immersive'), you're just framing your opinion as a fact.

No problem... to me my opinion no game from any decade is better than any others in general there are some I do think are better than others for my play style and taste and yes some of it is nostalgia, but I am good with that and i still enjoy nearly every game I play even if I have a better opinion over another. Yes there is also some I do flat out cannot play such as the new final fantasy series from 10 on though I did have fun with 12, but that is because what made FF for me ended when 10 came out and never got back there for better or for worse. As for the golden age of gaming well for me that started in the mid to late 80s and has continued to this day and I can see it going on even further.

? im not arguing about a time period i did not experience!

Meh. People take a hobby far to seriously. Some need to realise they're actually advlt and need to chill, some are children that shouldn't have access to the internet in the first place. Thats whats wrong with gaming as is.