What happens if I replace the normal skeleton with the beast skeleton for all?

Probably nothing bad -> just a bit of wasted Memory as the extra nodes get loaded onto every npc in range.

Why are you looking to do this ?

I was thinking to rig my capes to the tail bones to make it flap and float ... woudl work?

If you rig this then it will Break the Races that use the tail bones. (Bad Idea)
You would want to make a new bone set that has a bone with a Lag bone in it. (The lag bone can be created in nifscope) The Lag bone allows for flowy movement.
But it would still require you create the bone in the havok files also.

why shoudl break?

The problem is not that it will break the animal races its that only the animal races animate the tail as its animated as a secondary object -> which not so coincidentally is exactly how I am doing Capes, Robes and other dangling objects using Reactor Havok to bake Physic simulation to secondary animations not influenced by the main actor or any replacers people may be using.

So how should I doto use it?

I would not wait for me to release this anytime soon as I am doing it as part of a Province mod I am prototyping ideas for -> although I am in the CK Beta group so this would make an excellent small release time frame mod for the purpose of testing required within the Beta.

SaidenStorm,

Congrats on being in the beta! You've made some awesome stuff, it's well deserved! I hope that you can provide us animation noobs with some Skyrim specific tutorials if you ever get the time. Thanks for all you've done!

unreal work saidenstorm i can remember alot of your work for oblivion was pritty amazing stuff probably the first to get custom creatures into game if i remember correctly..
as your testing the ck is it an easier to get custom creatures and anims in game this time if u have even tryed that is?

Easier is not the word I would use -> its actually quite a bit more difficult:

1) You need more files (At least Skeleton.hkx, Skeleton.nif, Mesh.nif and every single animation.hkx required) and there are required files that we can not even create (we have to copy/paste these from Beth's Actors), also some can only be created with the Havok Content Tools Plugins for Max/Maya/XSI -> Blender users need not apply as you will get no love from Havok.

2) The animations have to be named exactly the same as the base actors who Behavior Files you Copied/Pasted and you have to have every single one included in the Behavior Files or the game crashes.

3) The Skeleton.nif and Skeleton.hkx need to be basically identical to function in the game or Havok will not work and/or the game crashes from inconsistent data.

4) The profiles (MainProfile and CharacterFile -> the Behavior Files can not be converted) have to be converted using the HCT Stand Alone Manager from binary.hkx to XML -> Edit them to make them accept your actors setup -> Bone Pairs, Character Name and linking to secondary files -> then convert that back to Binary.hkx.
You could Add new animations to the Character File at this point but it would not help as we can not edit the behavior files and that is where animations get assigned states, transitions and events -> so thats not going to happen anytime soon.

there are other things involved....but its more for information for a general tutorial at a later date.

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I have had Custom Creatures running as replacers in the game before the Beta started I have 3 of them in game right now -> that I have spent the most of my time setting up as separate entities so they are no longer replacers but are their own Actor now.

I am not wiating for it , I just asked how I coudl use it ... I didn0t really understood your Sentence :

"using Reactor Havok to bake Physic simulation to secondary animations not influenced by the main actor or any replacers people may be using."

IC, Reactor Havok is Max's native Physics System there are tutorials that come with Max on how to set this up and its basic use.

As for secondary animations I was referring to how the Tail is animated its an item attached to the the actor that has its own animations separate from the character actor -> this is also how Bows are animated this time around.

Ok so if I replace the skeletons of the beasts for all the player characters , ( I don't think it shoudl breack the game ) m And I use it's native animation to make flap the capes I did , having rigged the cape to those bones as well as skirt and shoulders .... why should I need an extra animation for it? OR involve any havok physics? I have checked the flapping of the tails of the beast characters and have some smooth slight movements , nothing erratic that woudl ruin the flapping effect ,(but I haven't tested ofc ) ...

Or what you meant was more like :

1 create a new bone system for the cape or use the skirt back bones ,

2 create a belieavable havok physic animation for the cape and bake it into the bones animation

3 export the animation as an endependant animation for the cape just like the tail or the bow ?

I am not sure if just replacing the Skeleton.nif/Skeleton_Female.nif with SkeletonBeast.nif/SkeletonBeast_Female.nif will cause the game to load the tail animations for non-beast races you would most likely have to assign them a tail as well -> but you will want to test this yourself.

How I am doing Capes is right now my PoC is as a Tail replacer -> I created all of the files needed and they are replacing tails for the 2 beast races -> once I move into the next phase of testing I plan to do Capes exactly like Bows as a completely independent item where the capes are assigned as necklace biped slot items and if that fails I will move into doing them like tails where their structure is defined in the Skeleton.nif files but their animations are separate.

I am already using the capes in place of a amulet slot , tough it woudl be better to have more slots to not remove stuff , anyway I rigged to the back skirt bones, so u can actually animate lik ethe bow with morph loops and then attach to the slot without using bones?

Bows do not use Morphs' the game engine no longer supports the use of NiGeomMorpherControllers -> it crashes the second you have one in a nif -> the Bow is animated with Bones and Havok Behavior just like every actor it's its own entity with its own animations just attached to NPC Actors.

Ahhh cool then I understand now what you where referring to :

make an endependant bone system for the cape and attach to the slot for the neckllace?

This would override the need to rig to skirt or tails ... but

Since you are in beta you can say anything about the Animations and the possibility to create the "smooth transitions" among an anim and the other , ? If I remember well you said this is not possible to do due to the behaviour files that shoudl handle this so we are still stuck to robot animation like jumps? or use starting ending point from the default idle position?

Not sure what you mean by Robot Anims but most of the default anims blend together nicely, but yes we can not create new Behavior Files so we are left with the ones bethesda's artists created -> Behavior itself is more then capable of creating start loop end animation sequencing all of the casting animations are created in this manner and even event based sequencing -> the Dragon Priests use a Motion Stop animation for all of its movements that only gets applied when transitioning from movement to idle, there are many instances of complex sequenced animations.

Damn, you guys are talking about things way beyond my comprehension. But it's very interesting read. Litlle by little, I'm learning

For now I'm just happy if I can modify idles. Which brings me to a question, is it really necessary to have/use the Havok tool? If I'm not mistaken, a forum member mentioned he was able to modify idles just by turning the hkx into kf, and import it to 3ds max while making his adjustments using a skeleton and rigged body as a reference. I could be mistaken though.. but can it be done this way if we just want to make minor adjustments to say, the way our character stands and such?

Thanks

That is exactly what the tool on Page 1 does it converts hkx to kf or xml and back to hkx -> but it only works off of a valid Skeleton.hkx which you have if all your doing is altering Beth's animations to create replacers.

If you want to create anything original like Custom Creatures or Crossbows you absolutely have to have the Havok Content Tools Plugins -> if your not planning anything like this then do not bother picking it up as you will not need it.

Just that you mentioned the crossbow , since I guess like the bow coudl be animated with it's own bone system , havok etc , there shouln't be "jumps" in animations or we would still need behaviour files?

Someone will come along and create a simple editor for behavior files at some point it may just take a few years...

I don't know, people are coming out of the woodwork for Skyrim. I think we can take whatever estimate we might imagine based on previous precedent and half it at the very least. Exciting times!

Starting a new thread though it sort of drifted from its origin and its dangerously close to 200 and I probably will not catch it before getting locked.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1336657-rel-havok-animation-converter-thread-2/