On the exportkf try pointing at 2 folders, the first is source the second is destination. Note that its . . with a space in between. So basically use the source as same as destination. You can also try with just one . in the current version and it should work as it will assume destination is same as source. If you use .. it might be searching your whole harddrive or something searching for animation files.

Better off just specifying the folders explicitly. From my example above:

hkxcmd exportkf d:\temp\skya d:\temp\skya

Still does not work exact same problem Convert Works -> ExportKF does not.

May I ask whats the love of your Temp folder in your base directory ? I even created a Temp folder on my E drive still did not work. Convert did under the exact same directories.

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I was finally able to get exportkf to work -> you might want to document that it REQUIRES EXACT game directory path's because no where does the readme mention that and I have a tendancy not not burry files I am working on 5+ folders deep.

also its setting KF's to User Version to 11 instead of User Version = 12

----

I just figured out how to properly export fully functioning animations right out of Max no alteration required post export any longer.

Thanks for the heads up. Yes it does require exact game folders. I tend to try to not play around with the game developers folder structure. I will update the readme and first post and probably put out a tool for doing exactly that.

Version number must be left over code. I dont think KF files are different between user version 11 and 12.

Presumably you are adding the missing bones and then using the exact bone order from the base skeleton?

Excellent work. Have you investigated at all the other features of the Havok tools (in particular with reference to animation retargeting?) That looks like an awesome feature.

I mentioned in a previous post that the Animation files were structured in LOD order not Skeletal Hierarchy Order.

The Skeleton.hkx contains the entire skeleton in LOD order minus any of the addon chains like the tail node and secondary animated objects.

As for how i got the official HCT Exporter to function -> I finally reconstructed the Bethesda Rig and Animation Tracks Files -> so now every animation I export goes straight in-game and functions without any skeletal mal-deformation.


Havok Content Tools Plugin does not contain any Re-Targeting thats Havok Behavion -> Havok Animation, besides Max/Maya and XSI all contain Animation Re-Targeting suites so its not required in the Plugin versions.

The Havok SDK includes examples for retargeting and blending from code without Behavior so that could be done outside of max but presumably retargeting from the tools is more interactive and easier to use.

There is also a create mapping in the export tool pipeline for defining skeleton maps though not sure that is actually useful. Also the File Load button was disabled so I could not import mappings but in theory it may be possible to use it for something .

Create Mapping is used mainly for Mapping A Ragdoll Structure to a Skeleton -> the Animation Re-Targeting section works kinda~~ if you can get past the disabled portions.

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could help on this topic. I am adding a couple of additional bones to the default female in Skyrim.

Well im getting really close,
I was able to create my own bone rig and it works in game.
I edited the mesh painting the new bone weights to the mesh and it loads in game.

Now im trying to create an animation and export it.
Heres the problem im having.
I ran through the tutorial here
and I was able to export all the animations and import them into 3ds Max.
I made my changes to the animations to include the new bones.
I Exported the animation as a .kf file for example the: mt_idle.kf
The problem is when I went to convert the .kf file into a hkx file again I had to select a skeleton.hkx file or a skeleton_female.hkx file.
(If I use the existing skeleton.hkx file then it tells me the bones I created dont exist and it skips them)
(the skeleton file that I have that has the new bones I created is a .nif file in the \meshes\actors\character\character assets female directory)
How can I create a skeleton_female.hkx with the right data in order to make an animation with new bones work?
Can I use the Havok Content tools exporter that is part of the havok package that is installed in my 3dsmax now?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have spent many hours trying to get an animation with the new bones into the game.
Im so close I have the rigging and the mesh working I just need a way to import the animations now with the new bones.

Thank you for your time

As an aside I tried doing this to get just the animation file:
http://forums.elementalgame.com/398524

But it seems that isnt working properly (I get warning messages on every bone)
Not sure if I am picking the wrong options for exporting an animation for skyrim or what.
When I play the idle animation in skyrim she just stands there in the T pose.

You have a whole ton of S**T you need to do to add new bones available for Animation Mapping

1) You need a completely restructured Skeleton.hkx, this includes:
1a) You have to make sure the Bone Mapping order is intact or you will F**K up EVERY animation already created and most likely yours as well.
1b) You MUST have a completely RigidBodied and Constrained model in Max/Maya/XSI EXACTLY LIKE BETH SET IT UP or you will F**K up collisions and death ragdolling, this MUST also be Skeleton Mapped exactly like the Skeleton.nif or the Collisions will just not function or you will crash the game!
1c) You MUST have a complete repository of all secondary Root Nodes attached to the Skeleton or you will F**K up all secondary animations that require these, there are 7 of these not including the Base NPC and Ragdoll roots -> Not all seem necessary but Roots like TailExportRoot, CloakExportRoot, RobeExportRoot, etc... better to have these and not mess up something then the opposite.
1d) You MUST properly set up all Float Tracks or you will F**K up most equip/unequip animations you will also fubar the Furniture anims, these contain all Visibility Anims among other types of anims -> There are 8 Float Tracks for the Character Actor.

And this is just the start of the work required.

Do not use the "TransformScene Filter" Beth uses Max Units so there is no need to transform anything, other then that you can follow that tutorial but it will only get you so far its missing a few Filters required and/or useful for Skyrim, mostly the Havok related Filters Rigid Bodies, Constraints, Skeleton Mapping, Spline Compression, etc...

Aside from the extensive use colorful expletives (in BOLD), this can be quite useful for those looking to delve deeper into animations.

Well the Havok I have for max has these "Rigid Bodies, Constraints, Skeleton Mapping, Spline Compression" (But I didnt know I needed them, any ideas what else I would need?)

The question I have is, do I need to generate a new skeleton_female.hkx in the animation folder?
The game doesnt act funny with the new skeleton_female.nif I have in the "Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets female"
and my custom rigged mesh in: "Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets"

The skeleton has all the proper data in it that is needed in the skeleton_female.nif file for collision etc.
(So meshes rigged with the new bones I made work with existing animations, but I cant make new animations for them because the exporter here requires a skeleton.hkx file to generate the animation.hkx file.)
So I wasnt sure if you could bypass the step where it needs the skeleton step somehow or I can export the animation only?

Or do I really need to replace the "Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets female" "skeleton_female.hkx" with a new one as well?

Thanks

this means one could potentially create a custom animation set? like the combat styles ragnarok created for neverwinter nights?

One can always hope, will need the CK before we can know if this is even remotely possible -> although I have already created a bunch of Beta Anims for Throwing Weapons(Spears, Axes, Daggers), Throwing Potions, Crossbows and 1Handed Spears and 2Handed Poleaxes/Halberds -> everything is going to stay beta until I know for sure if this is possible or not.


I will create a Max + Havok Content Tools + Skyrim Custom Creatures Tutorial after the CK is Released and everything gets cemented -> until then if you have any experience with Official Exporters at all the HCT Exporter is basically identical and all thats needed from there is knowledge of whats required/desired for Skyrim.


Yes.


Your mis-understanding -> the Skeleton.hkx defines SkeletonMapping and ONLY these nodes are available for Mapping Animations to Skeletons at runtime so it does not matter what you add to the Skeleton.nif if its not defined in the Skeleton.hkx you will never be able Map any anims to those nodes.

So again the answer is Yes you do need a completely new Skeleton_female.hkx that includes not only everything in the Original but also your new bones and doesn't break anything already present.


I used the wording I did in my first response because these are the words you will be using while trying to recreate all of this in Max/Maya/XSI and more so if your not familiar with HOW to do any of this.

Ahh Ok I see,
So there is no hope of finding out what filters, order, and other things needed for exporting the original skeleton with an additional 2 to 4 bones attached to spine2 for example?

I just figured that if someone could make a program to have the animation file reference the skeleton file to generate the havok file for skyrim animation that they would have more knowledge of the information in the skeleton file to add additional bones.

Quite the opposite it is possible its just ALOT of work to reconstruct the entire Rig and the reason you need Max/Maya or XSI is because these are the only 3D Apps supported by Havok and thus the only programs that have the Havok Content Tool Exporters which are required to be able to export the Skeleton.hkx files

As for Filter Order I know the exact Scene Setup and Filter Order required for exporting Skeleton.hkxs' and Animation.hkxs' that will go straight in game without any 3rd party apps post export, and I will create a Tutorial but not until after I get a hold of the CK.


The reason this program requires the Skeleton.hkx to be able to convert hkx to kf and the reverse is because the hkx anims do not contain node names for run time Mapping to nodes (Behavior does support this but it saves file size to not include these in each and every anim.hkx, Skyrim itself DOES NOT support this), Node Mapping Order is held in the Skeleton.hkx so without this the game and this program has no clue which transforms go to which nodes.

Ahh SaidenStorm I see,
I use 3ds max2011 I have used max forver and im completely new to havok.
I have been following a few tutorials here and there to export with certain filters but they are all for other games. So you can imagine that it wont work for skyrim hehe.

Im trying to create body physics through animation (So false body physics but with animations only)

I was so excited as it was working all the way up until the last step of adding a new animation with the new bone animaions.

If you feel like sharing some of the knowledge of the filters and order for exporting the bones/animations with havok out of Max I will be a happy sponge to learn.

Thank you so much for taking the time out to reply!

Here are the Filter Orders and a short definition of the type of data you need to define in each one

Skeleton.hkx Exports

Create Skeleton -> NPC Root -> This is where you have to define Bone Mapping Order and Float Tracks.
Create RigidBodies -> Turns proxies into rigidbodies -> Do not tick Create Additional Destruction Data Skyrim does not use Behavior Destruction.
Create Constraints -> Maps Constraint chains.
Create Ragdoll -> Combines the previous filters data to create the Ragdoll Data required.
Create Mapping -> creates the Skeleton Mapping and Ragdoll Mapping.
Prune Types -> culls information not desired in the Skeleton.hkx also defines Additional Root Nodes.
Write to Platform -> Writes out the Tagfile (HKX).

Note: if the Create Mapping Filter is giving you issues use a Second Create Skeleton filter above the Create Mapping and define the Ragdoll Root so the Mapping will allow you to Chose it -> after you do save and quit -> Restart then you can delete the second Create Skeleton filter and the Mapping Filter should pick up on the Create Ragdoll filter in the stack.

Note2: There are still come things I need to work out with this as Skeleton.hkx files created have a small issue with Resurrection in that they do not revert to allowing the nodes to be animation targets unless you Disable/Enable the actor and I have yet to figure out why as the difference between my Files and the Originals is the Memory Resource Container in mine do not contain any information and Beth's do -> I will figure out WTF is going on there later

Animation.hkx Exports

Create Skeleton -> NPC Root -> This is where you have to define Bone Mapping Order and Float Tracks.
Create Animations -> Set up animations -> Bone Mapping Order and Float Tracks need defined here as well.
Spline Compression -> Obvious
Prune Types -> culls information not desired in the Animation.hkx also defines Additional Root Nodes.
Write to Platform -> Writes out the Tagfile (HKX).

For the most part the Filters are straight forward -> the hardest part is setting everything up for the filters and the game.

SaidenStorm,

Thanks hun for taking the time to post that I will have to try it when I get home tonight.
So I take it by the hard part your saying the part of setting up the ragdoll exactly the same etc as in game?
So I would need to add ragdoll physics exactly the same as Skyrim has it on their skeleton?

Do you happen to know how it is all setup or is it something I can lookup/read/use a utility to find out?

For example attaching ragdoll to root node and another bone and linking them together etc.
Also we have to know the Constraint parameters as well?

They absolutely do not need to be exact to function in the game, they do all need to be present though -> if this is the reason Resurrection does not work I can not say with any level of certainty at this point, I will spend more testing time on whats going on there later.

If them not being 100% equal is the issue its going to be a pain to correct as Beth has the luxury of just exporting both the Skeleton.hkx and Skeleton.nif off the same scene with most likely the same exporter where as we do not we have to use 2 different exporters based off of 2 different code sets and the NifTools Exporter has never really had perfect Rigidbody or Constraint exports/settings -> just load a Beth Skleton.nif(you need to do this on an Ob or FO3/NV nif as Skyrim Havok has not been updated, I have already decoded some of the differences between the old FO3 implementation and the Skyrim Implementation but its an incomplete decode ATM) into NifSkope and hit update a few Constraints the settings all change -> Beth's were not wrong its NifSkopes that are wrong but work ...but you have layer a bit heavier on the Inertia Tensors to stabilize the constraints otherwise they go nuts in the games.

Getting a Perfect 1:1 between these files is going to be extremely tedious ! :/ especially without the NifSkope update that kinda has to wait on the CK and a hopeful Scene Graph Viewer still functioning.

For you its a bit easier your trying to replace a known value so you have a target of comparison its still going to svck though... :/

hehe,
yeah I actually used nifscope and I didnt import the bones into 3dsmax because it loses all the havok data on import and the game would crash if I tried to use a skeleton_female.nif file if I imported from niftool --> 3dsmax, added bones then exported to nifscope and put the file into the game, the game would crash because all the havok data was missing from the file.

So I opened the skeleton in nifscope, I made a copy of the left and right middle finger (To get 4 bones attached to chest) and parented them to spine2.
I then renamed the bones and edited them in nifscope to have the proper scale, placement etc.

I then tested it in game and the game didnt crash.

I then painted the weights onto the mesh (adding those bones of course) and brought the figure into skyrim. Game didnt crash woohoo! (Game would crash before if the mesh had bones associated with the mesh that were not in the skeleton_female.nif file)

Then thats when I went to add the animation and realized ACK! theres a skeleton_female.hkx file too!

So thats where I am now. Havok installed and playing with filters, reading, learning etc. (Having fun and screaming at my computer all at the same time hehe)

I think my neighbors are probably thinking "There goes that girl again, she sounds crazier then usual"

It would be great if the .nif and the .hkx were the same file and there was a way to convert the edited .nif I made.

Oh for the skeleton.hkx do I need to create a tag doll bounding box attached to the NPC Root, then create a second capsule connected to (some other bone) then link the two capsules together?
That way I can define it as the ragdoll in the create mapping? (Not sure what two bones to attach the capsules to.
(something simular to this: http://www.gamestepper.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2883) but to the right two bones whatever they may be.

Secondly for the prune type for the Skeleton.hkx I checked:
http://216.105.128.240/Cherry/Skyrim/havok/HavokPrune.JPG
Is that right or do I need to check or uncheck anything?

Lastly for the Write to platform I have it set like this:
http://216.105.128.240/Cherry/Skyrim/havok/havokWritetoPlatform.JPG
Anything I should change?

(tried to use an image tag for the images, but I guess the site only lets you link to images)

I used the settings I have above and the game loaded and didnt crash! However my character stays in the T pose hehe.
Im getting closer!

Looks like I can open the skeleton_female.hkx from skyrim in an xml editor.
I can also open the one i just created in xml editor as well.

Heres the original skeleton_female file (I put it in .doc format but you can open it in anything that reads XML)
http://216.105.128.240/Cherry/Skyrim/havok/skeleton_female-Original.doc

Heres my new exported skeleton_female (You will see theres a major difference, I also have 4 new bones attached to spine2 prebriast and briast bone)
http://216.105.128.240/Cherry/Skyrim/havok/skeleton_female-New.doc

Maybe that will give some help or insight?

Ahh IC, trying to make the most popular animation mod ever -> Animated... B Bs'



Hologram might be able to include some kind of Skeleton.nif to hkx within this converter though I would be far more interested in going in the reverse as I would prefer to be able to use HCt to Export my Skeleton.hkx and just convert that into a Skeleton.nif.


Bounding Box no -> I have not been creating a Physical Bounding Box it doesn't exist within Beth's so I skipped it besides a generic BB Shape is most likely included in the file somewhere.

If the second half is refering to the CharacterBumper node and phantom collision -> yes you need this.


No need to define the CharacterBumper within the ragdoll as its a seperate entity the rigidbody filter will pick it up and add it to the hkpPhysicsData.


I would also Tic to Remove Destruction Data just incase you accidently or Purposefully add some to the RigidBodies.


Not sure exactly what Metadata is within the file but it bloats the Packfile egregiously 10x its non Metadata size and the metadata does not seem to do anything so I think its safe to remove it.