Whats a skill shot?

A skill shot would be described as something that takes a considerable amount of understanding, an active mind, and a lot of playing to successfully pull off consistently.

For example, if i were a mage casting a fireball, i would consider the short cast time (0.85 secs) which involves me thrusting my hand/staff at a player whom, i know can only move X distance and turn at Y rate, thus, if he is running at me at an angle, i can determine the few possibilities of where he might go to try and dodge my fireball, and cast there,or feint a few to confuse the player enough to set up for something else, or wait until hes close enough that it would be nearly impossible for me to miss unless i slipped, i can also determine if i would like to place some fire traps to hinder his ability to dodge/juke without getting into more trouble. Likewise, the Melee player is using his well known knowledge of his weapon leignth and skills so he can chain is wombo combo correctly to effectively close distance, and overwhelm the mage.

If either player is a well learned veteran, while the other is completely clueless, the veteran can effectively dominate the other taking little to no damage, if both players are well learned veterans, small errors and critical hits will determine the outcome.

I know i cant be the only one worried about the current combat system and how it translates to pvp... I'm going to do my best to make this a clear issue so that you all can understand my concern. I dont have time to pretty-up this post, so bear with its dull text wall style.

1. WoW- A cliche comparison, but we can all agree PvP in WoW was never taken seriously on any measurable scale outside its deranged and overpowered class combinations which put originality to shame. WoW, while on its surface may SEEM different than Elder scrolls online, shares the same combat system, Elder scrolls adds a couple things like blocking and rolling, but WoW could EASILY implement that if needed (its a silly, overated mechanic)

2. Call of Duty- inb4 "Omg wtf he said the bad word" Call of Duty shares one distinct feature with ESO, which is how honestly hilarious players can turn. Only difference here is that the Aimbot is built in, so as long as you know the capability of your class, you really dont need any more prowess other than pointing in the correct direction and pressing a couple macro's

3. Guild Wars 2- As im sure you all know, Guild wars 2 has been on a continuous downward spiral. Its not because its a badly made game, it plays great! It came down to players blaming end game and the lateness of the culling patch. This is where it really became apparent what made this, and other MMO's a cliche. The lack of a decent skill ceiling, most pvp engagements had our commander screaming "Push in and spam AOE!", "Retreat and respawn here!", "overwhelm the small group/fortress with completely unnecessary tools!"

Besides Planetside 2, (a fps of course) All MMORPG's have a 1-2 week skill ceiling, beyond that it all comes down to teamplay and cooperation, which is due to the lock-on target mechanism which can actually be completely automated.

The only PVP that has successfully survived and been praised for many years, has been those based on skill shots. The only i know are M&B Warband, and MOBAS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ1W9vvJR8o < A simple video showing two clans fighting in M&B, notice the amount of missing, parrys, and skill displayed here, no one is shooting homing missiles.

DAoC is still praised and considered by many to have the best PvP of an MMO out there. It used basic tab targeting and no skill shots. Oh and it is still running today with a subscription. This game isn't about small scale PvP, but PvP on a Mass scale. *edit* Also the skill ceiling in these games is higher than you seem to think. There is a reason less than 2% of the WoW population is remotely competitive in PvP. GW1 (no skillshots) had some of if not the highest skill ceiling of the time in a competitive environment, and probably still not eclipsed yet.*end edit*

I'd like to have skill shots in the game, but saying that PvP of this game won't last just because of skill shots when similar games have is just ignorant.

If this is true, then why have i, an avid nerd and pvp player, never heard of it? Why have i never seen any serious tournaments organized, and why is only streamed by like 12 people on a good day?

Because you are a late comer to the world of Gaming. Because it is not a competitive PvP game. It is a game meant for Mass scale pvp. It is also old, much older than WoW. Most games it's age would be shut down, instead this is till going with a sub.

You should read my edit about GW1 and WoW as well.

So you suggest a game of 2013 can assume the same mechanic as that of ancient, early mmo days and still have the same lasting impact? When has that ever happened outside a call of duty series? Gamers are bit more serious these days and expect a system that challenges them to improve, rather than respec

Oh and BTW I don't find skill shots challenging at all. I find creating a good build and adapting to situation much more challenging than aiming a skill shot. There is so much more to skill than simply aiming at things.

Shooting and landing a skillshot is not hard at all for a skilled veteran, but it requires an active and focused mind, it also requires a determination of how effective it can be versus the chance you may legitimately miss. Even now i am considered only a mediocre M&B player as i dont have the built-up mental memory of possibilities of unique situations. For example, i can take on maybe 1 guy with a good chance to kill, any more than that and im toast. I knew people who could take on 3-4 with no problem as they would consider the dynamic swing time of all 4, the possiblity they would swing during an opening, and the chance they would fall for a feinted attack, letting their guard down to respond and leaving an opening. All that happens in under 2 seconds. Thats skill, not pressing tab and playing the micro pianno

I don't know, maybe not nerdy enough? Have you tried wearing spiderman underwear to bed?

Maybe some hipster glasses?

Fixed it for you

And I know people that could take on multiple enemies in WoW, DAoC, GW1, even when a bit under geared where even a somewhat skilled person would be slaughtered in such situation. Again, there is more to skill than simple twitch skill. The timing is present in all the combat. If you want to talk about a good dynamic system, play some Chilvalry. It puts M&Bs combat to shame.

The people you saw who could do that simply had a better hotkey setup and could sidestep with it. Other than interrupting and possibly reflecting, upon watching them play, its easy to see that they are doing the same thing as swinging a sword in M&B except its spread over 10 keys doing different things instead of direction based sword swings and dart throwing. The system in WoW DAoC and GW1 simply takes that 2 seconds of critical thinking and gives it some more space to make up for the lowest common denominator, so that even a button mashing 10 year old can feel productive rather than being cut down immediately when smashing buttons, thus creating a less serious, more casual playerbase who dont mind fighting 50 seconds to figure out they are owning a complete noob. Where in a game like M&B and Dota 2 the skill difference is made apparent as the same thing can happen in under 5 seconds

Thank you for speaking on something you know nothing of You have never played GW1 nor DAoC so your statement about them makes no sense. Having played M&B and Dota 2 (and many other MOBAS), I can tell you that they take very different skill sets than those in DAoC and GW1. Again you seem to be stuck focusing on twitch only combat.

Right so, I'm lost. I see a big long rant about skill shots, and somehow... they're connect to the 'lasting effect' of PvP.

What 'lasting effect' are you looking for?

In game? The side with the most players good with skill shots wins the most campaigns? Some sort of faction benefit?

Out of game? Whatever... that would actually mean.

Between games? I'm really reaching here, the only thing in the post is

No skilshots?

???

Bad!

Is bad...no profit? Maybe. Or something. I'm not sure. I suspect its bad, though, whatever it is.

I disagree with the OP entirely. An RPG should be character-based. My bosmer archer can hit you and guess which way you are going to dodge. They shouldn't be chaacter based; I have no experience shooting arrows, but that doesn't make my bosmer any worse.

You're tricky for putting the punch line at the very end of the post. Bravo.

And how do you know this if you never played either of those games? Also, Planetside 2 is an MMOFPS, not an MMORPG. COMPLETELY different genre and play style and has nothing to do with ESO at all. All your other points have been smashed to pieces already so i will not bother with those.

PVP in Asheron's Call was friggin' awesome.

Im against twitch based combat because I dont think players should get their main advantage from having the fastest possible connection. Combat should be about tactics and strategy, not reaction times. And renaming it "skill shots" doesnt change anything.

TF2, a basic shooter? The only other shooter to feature rocket jumping was Quake. Guess what Team Fortress is? A quake mod. There are barley any other arcade style shooters, let alone class based ones. Let alone class based ones with cloaking, tactical god-mod, buildings and objective based maps. You have some odd view of "basic".

Is pretty basic..rocket jumps or no. Maybe the hats have people confused? The many, many hats.

Then again..there aren't many different level of shooters? One can be better than the other..but it's guns and shooting.. it's still the same things over and over; Killing, Death matches, capture the flag, killing, king of the hill (bwaahhh?), killing..

Halo has all those modes you mentioned, and those abilities in powerups..

Classes? Okay, maybe different? A lot of shooters have classes now..it's pretty basic.. (warframe, tribes, planetside 2, every other shooter on steam last I looked)

Maybe when it was new it was unique..?

I've fallen into long gaming cycles with mount and blade - amazing game.

This is why with the solo games I'm all about mods that increase player skill component - Duke Patrick is what it is all about. I played his Oblivion mods before M&B even.

The only 'skill' in this game that seems player skill oriented is the lock-picking.

PvP in SWG and UO was pretty good as well.

DAoC and Eve Online has the best pvp I have encountered though just for the fact it is massive scale and players can shape the world they play in. Battle Arenas and Warzones are what kills pvp in most mmo's and need to be removed from the games.

And Eve Online now has tournaments for players where they can win money in real life through sponsors, the last prize I think was something like $10,000 for the winning side. Also I have been a part of a less equipped group and lower skilled in Eve Online and beaten much larger foes through careful flying and being able to read our enemies before they do certain things.

Your Skill Shot thingy not sure what it is and I have never played a MOBA or CoD game. But I assume a Skill Shot = Twitch gaming? I believe ESO comes with a dodge ability which you will need to use so there you have it Twitch gaming in pvp with abilities and skills.

The OP really needs to play more games from the older generations to learn more.

When I hear the word twitch - I think of first person shooters where the milieu is hair trigger spasms and endless ammo combined with insta healing.

When I think of a good skill based rpg combat as seen in M&B or gothic/Risen or Duke Patrick mods for TES - I think of having to watch the environment, timing blows and blocks, watching health and fatigue, actual player skills of moving the character in a 3-D environment and aiming. The word twitch does not apply.