I find it silly that Oblivion was re-rated because of a nvde mod. Following that logic, any game that can be modded should be 'mature'.......

It's rated PG for parental guidance, seriously. I don't know about you, but where I live, themes have more influence on whether it should be rated M or R, besides the overly excessive graphic violence or six scenes.

Never got the rating system to be honest, if a GAME is going to corrupt/damage your kids they have underlying problems anyway, hell i was brought up watching terminator 1/2 and predator etc i dont paint myself up go and go loco every weekend.

Killing and nudity is about as natural as it gets and wrapping my kids in cotton wool isnt an option, they need to know the way things work.

Indeed, its one of those knee-jerk reactions to the bible bashers whinging about a bit of skin showing. Frankly all a child has to do is turn on a TV and watch an advert slot and they see more sixualised content than 95% of all games on the market with an M/18 rating. Women in leotards doing pilaties while eating a cetain branded cereal or women screaming "yes! yes! yes!" like a sixual encounter when washing her hair with a certain branded shampoo, the list is frankly and honestly endless. So what if a low quality computer rendering of the human form shows some nudity, EVERYONE see's their own nakedness at every age when they go in a bath or a shower.

Its the same idiotic reaction that these morons had when mass effect came out demanding banning or an advlt only rating for a game allowing a female character to have a relationship with an alien that was feminine. Despite the fact that said alien race was monosixual and had no male/female devide. When rating systems start pandering to the whims of the ultra conservatives is when we get issues like above.

It wasn't. And not because of a nvde female upper body texture in the game's archives either. Actually, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESRB_re-rating_of_The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion, a mod was a part of the reason because it used a topless female upperbody texture that was left in the game's archives by the developers. But mostly it was re-rated because some of the more gorier scenes were not shown to the rating commitee initially.

Actually, ask most Americans, they don't like nudity, its not just ultra conservatives, its a cultural thing.

do american developers really make games/movies to fit european ratings? Here 16 and 18 are the same and its just 18, T is like 13 and thats just before M or 17 rather

but yeah you can find really mutilated bodies as well as burn people alive and kill them while they're begging for mercy and cut their heads off and stuff, I think it deserves an M. The finishers are pretty brutal even without the perks

american culture has become ultra conservative lol just swtich on the history channel the only history you'll find on it is about the bible or seven deadly sins. aliens occasionally

It's 18 here as the PEGI rating, however it's not enforceable by law, unlike in other barbaric countries like UK.

If you mean ultra-conservative when comparing to Europe, then yes. History channel is a joke now, trust me. They used to be great, I learned so much, now, I just read books for my history, its pathetic.

Its a 15 in the UK, there are not that many games that are actually rated an 18 in the UK. And 18 is the highest classification.

Yeah, it's the same here. PEGI works more like a parental guideline.

The PEGI is just a bullsh*t system made up so that conservative oldies -screeching like a banshee every time they see VIRTUAL blood, six or discrimination- can be satisfied. Even where and when they force shops to not sell the product to those not above the age limit nothing happens. The targeted underage audiance still gets the game either via mommy or just handing the money to an older friend/relative and asking them to buy it. It's just like alcohol laws. "You can't buy booze without an I.D. sonny but tell you what, just ask an older friend to come in with you so I can turn a blind eye over it and make more cash."

Wait, I'm confused, I've been to Europe, and lemme tell you, they are very lax on stuff Americans take seriously, the "conservative oldies" must have like no power, because trust me, I saw some things as a little kid in Europe that still horrify me today.

Europe is more lax, my example was more directed at the American system. Although (at least in my country) the screeching-o-meter values are the polar opposite of the American system. We don't care about nudity or even six scenes (heck, our most popular newspapers feature nakes ladies on the front and back pages with introduction/teaser texts like "Seems like that pesky bra of Elizabeth's decided to come off the wrong time while the beatiful model was just sunbathing in the early hours.") but there is a big concern and media hysteria regarding violent video games and agression.

Why do many Americans always think everything is just about them? I only mention the US because you spoke like it only applies to your country and I am not American. Many other places have nudity and even porm.

However, i do think people should be less funny about nudity even other cultures including places like the Middle East and elsewhere not just America.

Just adding, it's 18+ in Poland, too.

I believe ratings boards now understand the difference between post-game mods and the game itself.

There is enough experience from Oblivion with the nvde mods and skimpy clothing and armor.

And even though the CK is not out yet there are already nvde mods and skimpy armor/clothing mods, so i believe that was in their mind as well.

As much as I hate the American bashing that tends to go on online, I have to be honest here. It's not people, it's America. In Europe it's the other way around, as it should be for any sane, healthy individual. It takes one sick puppy to consider boobs worse than decapitation. Unfortunately the puritans running the ESRB are not all that sane and healthy.

Edit: And want to know why you never see any AAA games rated AO, only little indie games? Walmart. Seriously. Walmart refuses to stock AO games and that's a massive financial penalty to any game developer that wants to sell physical copies.

It was not the nudie mods that got Oblivion re-rated.

It was all the gore (such as but not limited to severed heads on pikes) strewn about in places like the Oblivion realms that got it re-rated. How the ESRB raters missed that I do not know...

No nudity
No sixual themes
No bad language

Only violence, and besides a beheading here and there, it isn't even that bad. Imo, I though Skyrim was a bit too tame.

My daughter is 15 and I'm okay with her playing it.
In fact, I think some of the finishing moves in Assassin's Creed - Revelations (et al) are a bit much at times. Some of the new ones in revelations make me cringe!
. . . and yet she still plays it too!

Censureship was created by busy-body old fools who had nothing better to do with their time. I'm an advocate of self-censorship - every TV comes with a device that allows you to change the channel. If you don't like what you see, CHANGE THE CHANNEL.
When it comes to games, if you come across something you don't like don't play it, or avoid that particular storyline. It's entirely up to the player/watcher what they do, and not some 'busy'bodies' job to tell you whether you should be playing/watching it.
However, 'Game Age Ratings' (as per those used for movies) do have a place in society. If you buy a game/dvd that is 18+ you should know what to expect!
Rant over, you can continue with the discussion now! ;o)

I'm not American, I'm a Afrikaner, from a conservative Anglican background, I saw things in Europe that I still can't wash out of my mind.

I respect your culture and opinion, please respect America's.

Puritans don't run the ESRB, ITS CULTURAL, CULTURAL, CULTURAL. In Europe, its ok for 60 year old woman to be nvde in front of a 10 year old (thats true, I experienced it ). Its ok for an entire family to be nvde together (same experience, same place ). Its not ok in America, we're different, insulting different cultures gets us nowhere. (I've been living in America for four years now, while not American, I follow the culture.)