There have been plenty of topics debating the morality and merits of both the NCR and Legion, but not nearly as many focusing on Mr.House himself. When I play the game, I can't help but feel like I've missed something about him, as his backround and actions seem far less grey or black than that of the Legion or NCR. Recently I watched a few vids of Fallout New Vegas on Youtube and realized that the english Mr. House sounds like a very arrogant, snobbish little [censored]; the German voice for Mr. House by comparison is far more reasonable, polite and civilized, so I can't help but wonder if half the reason people have to dislike him is based on his personality and attitude alone.

To my knowledge, one would view him as "evil" because he:

-Absolutely refuses to allow the Brotherhood of Steel to exist in the Mojave. Then again, the Brotherhood of Steel itself is a rather stubborn, aggressive and threatening group that would definitely have issues with the technology of Vegas...
-Pushed tribes out of New Vegas in order to form it under his rule, the way he wants it
-Various issues with Freeside, ranging from neglect, denying them the luxuries of the Strip and some of his game ending interactions with The Kings, perhaps one of the most "good" groups in the game.


Compared to a list of wrong-doings I could make concerning the Legion or the NCR, this list is very, VERY short.
So here I ask: why should I NOT side with Mr. House? I want to hear some more arguments against him.

Mr House is a tyrant, he wants to "rule" the strip killing everyone in his way, just like the Legion, and NCR, he's no different. If you don't have The Kings fight against the NCR, House, kills all the Kings, he feels they're weak. I had fun playing the Mr House ending, I did it with an evil raider type and the ending was worth it. He was just a typical old man who wanted to rule the world kind of a guy, not sure that's so bad, sounds like the Legion and NCR to me.

House ending (evil PC), I liked the idea of House fearing me:

I've explained it in the other threads, but here it goes:

1) House's choice of people to run the strip: two mafia-like gangs one of which specializes in sixual slavery (if you talk to the Gomorrah prosttutes Dazzle and Joanna, both of them mention having been bought as opposed to hired) and a bunch of cannibals. What does it tell you about his methods? What kind of people do you think he will put in charge of the rest of the Mojave if he ends up in control?

2) The absolutely worst-off areas in the Mojave are those immediately adjucent to the Strip. Compare the relatively isolated Goodsprings to Freeside or the New Vegas Square and you'll see my point. This is way beyond neglect.

3) House's promise of "colony ships in space in 50 years" is most likely a bluff. Unless he already knows a habitable planet (and what are the chances of that?), it will take centuries to actually locate one. Moreover, it's a solution for SOME of the people, but he cannot put the entire population of the Mojave, let alone the rest of the planet, into those ships, can he? So a small group may (or may not) be saved, at tremendous cost to the rest. How's that helpful?

4) House's attitude to technology isn't far removed from that of BoS. He is sitting on a wealth of medical knowledge- which, unlike weapons tech, cannot threaten his rule- and he won't share with the Followers so that they could save lives. Again, what does that tell you about him?

Edit- Also, the only genuinely good faction in the game, the Followers of the Apocalypse- do not get the best possible ending under House. They're able to help more people if the NCR wins.

He's a pretty good image of the pre-war coorperate America (forgot your security token to work? Well, Mr. Sentrybot here needs to have his miniguns calibrated...).

His indifference to the world beyond the tip of his nose is what makes him bad. He has the means to lend a hand here and there but he focuses solely on his pet project, which seems a bit silly in itself.

There are some upsides and downsides concerning Mr House, but for me the upsides are more dominant.

What's "good" about Mr House is that he has a strong standing force, yet has no corruption since he rules alone. The NCR is in the Mojave for the resources. They want money, water and energy. How can they possibly be a good solution for the Mojave's problems if they don't care one bit about the area or it inhabitants. Only the resources. And in exchange for NCR "protection" you get to pay up, dearly.

The Legion is here for territory, and to take down the NCR. It's a bit pathetic, but in reality that's their motivation. "All beneath the flag of the Great Bear exist to test the strength of the Legion", as Lanius says. They are here for war to "test" the Legion, and want to take the territory.

But back to House. House actually cares about the city of Vegas. Sure, he had to push people out of the Strip in order to make it thrive. I really don't see how else he could've removed them. You can't expect him rebuild Vegas with tribals at war in the streets. The OP stated that House is evil because he wants to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel. Let me tell you, if I had an army of Securitrons, and I knew there were some technology-obsessed psychopaths hiding in a bunker ready to storm the Lucky 38 whenever they please, I would've liked for them to be removed as well.

So of course, House is rational and ruthless, but he is the obvious best choice for the region and the only real chance for Vegas to truly become a powerful and wealthy city.

Because Mr. House has boosted his own life time with hundreds of years and does not want to let go of his vision to control the Mojave and bringing back "old" life styles, like it was before the nuclear war in 2077.

This. And i dont think he could even get colony ships into space in 50 years, or 100 years. Its probably a bluff to get you working for him. Why work for someone who might help mankind and might get colony ships into space in 50 years

He isn't. He is a pragmatist and a capitalist. Both often mixed with "evil".

He's a pragmatist and utilitarian but of course that leads to him often over-looking the lives he damages through his actions.

I would add to this:

Pushing tribes out...Beatrix will tell you that many people died when he pushed his way into New Vegas. It sounded like he was very ruthless.

He also allows slavery and that's a deal-breaker for me. My character is anti-slavery to her core. See the slave collars on the girls in front of the Gomorrah and Dazzle will tell you they bought her. Any slaver doesn't deserve to be in the company of other human beings and has to go. It was easy to be against House for me.

"Rex Toto, we're snobbish, arrogant and english, lets get back to Kansas pronto."

His dialogue is pretty alof and taciturn, no more so than any of the leaders imo.

As for how evil.
Freeside, Northside, westside, the fiends, the water, the BoS, the strip factions, his robot army, treaties with the NCR..
General disregard of players minor pawns other than himself.
Show he's a ruthless power gamer, in for the long haul, not keen on deviating from a single vision.

A lot of problems the NCR are dealing with were initiated by his schemes, and aimed to be removed once the balance shifted.

So grey - evil on this.

As for his long term plans the end credits for every faction show zip, and are one - three choice max.
Far from any detail, at least in FO2 they linked closely to events in game, rather than a general thumbs up or down result.

Going by his attitude and quests, I say a highly effective NV proper.
A seedy under belly with lots of cheep labour and illicit money outer NV.
Outside of that trade and protection the focus, with plenty of NCR money men scrabling to get a tight grip on key assets.

Other words a grey, grimey but lucrative Mojave.

Sorry lads... House isn't evil. He is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)#Lawful_Neutraltp://.

He follows his law (The law of a mathematical probable outcome) to the letter. He doesn't care for moralities or ethical considerations. He just follows the numbers. He plays the game. That other players can't play it to his level and hasn't got his insight, clout or financial power isn't really a consideration for him. They can either wise up or piss off.

I'd have to vouch for this. He called me a Hore just before I disconnected him and strolled away to better things. What a mathematical sweetie.

-So he should have recited pi instead? Being pissed isn't outside the scope of being neutral... especially when facing death.

His math was fuzzy, that's all. The odds of Harlow disconnecting him after he called her a Hore were 100%. It's New Vegas but not new math.

-The fact that you blew away 5-7 tanks just to get to him to feel alarmed? You just wanted a chat? Whats the odds of that?

Anyone who thinks they are worthy of eternal life is evil :chaos:

In D&D yes that is the alignment he would have.
In NV the closest we get is grey, or pink...

Though crazy is in, CN, NC, CNN, oCeaN,

-By that definition every christian hindu and other person who thinks he will get an eternal life in heaven would be evil. Hardly so. And even if we apply the term to "normal" life, we have the science of medicine that is bascially working in that direction... not to mention the fetish for eternal youth that seems so popular...



-True. In NV its gray. I like gray. It has more shades than black or white. Even if most people do prefer the one or the other because everything is so easy when there is nothing in between. I can't help that people get confused when they can't get either black or white.

That is what I am referring to. To me, the scientific question for eternal life is extremely arrogant and narcissistic - House himself typifies this personality type - check his eulogy letter. Only extreme narcissists like House would seek to live forever (in this "earthy" life) and since they do so normally at the expense of helping others (which House could of done more of) they are by my definition evil.

-I really fail to see the equation between narcissistic and evil. I also fail to see how not helping others is per definition evil. Because I am quite sure that alot of people who could help others, even in the slightest way, do not. And I wouldn't be so bold as to label them all "evil".

The followers themselves say it when You install the Bug. Houses medical equipment is hyperadvanced. Prolly was even before the war. Its everyday application to post apocalyptia would be extremely limited. If at all possible.

Sure House most likely has access to medical tech that could help out. But I am betting that NCR, BoS and even the Enclave has access to medical tech that would be worthwhile in the hands of the public. Hell even the followers have tech that could likely make things run smoother in the nevada wasteland. Even the legion has that kind of tech. Does the fact that they do not share this per definition make them Evil?

I think not.

The BoS, Enclave, and NCR are not individuals and cannot be judged by the same standard as a single person.

And I don’t necessarily mean medical tech. Think of all the other good House could have done for the area, but instead he was fixated on maintaining “his” version of NV and his own power.

And I agree, “evil” is a little strong – but “evil” as in "I murder people for fun" is an extreme rarity. Morally “grey” people do most of the evil in the real world.

-I don't see any diffrence. NCR is supposedly there to help and protect. Supposedly they are the "good guys". That actually makes it worse. Even more so for the Followers.


-And this is diffrent how from NCR, BoS, the Legion, the Followers, the Kings, ect? Do they not all pursue their own agendas? Could they not all have helped "the salt of the people" more than they do?


- I agree. Morally gray people do most of the Evil. But who defines evil? Who defines white? Things are rarely clear cut, good vs evil, black vs light. We have computer games, books and movies that present us with nice easy to digest nuggets of good and bad and thats great in fiction. But in the real world (which IS how you should look at a RPG I think) things are mostly shades of gray.

For instance, most here sell all of their drugs, hoard all of the caps that they can, buy armor and weapons they really do not need ect, when they could donate the drugs to the followers, deposit the undepositable drugs where they did no harm, they could kill off drug suppliers, they could do all sorts of things... but they do not. Does this make them evil? Nope. Inconsiderate, narcissistic, arrogant, greedy, ambitious, murderous (after all... we kill our way through the game, some for the nice NCR armor, for that non-drop brushgun, some only when they have to) and many other things, but not evil. Only the roleplayers play evil. The rest are just in it for the nice pixels and the achievements. But if you apply how you would think of them if you were "in game" and don't "metagame" you soon come to realize that things are not very clear cut if you want to roleplay. And House is roleplaying. He is roleplaying the guy who puts every single resource and all of his logic toward his vision of post apocalyptic vegas. Just as the other factions do.

i doubt the NCR are keeping a horde of health tech away from the public for any reason.
Ceaser might be, but he believes that using drugs or machines is wrong and for the weak. So atleast he has a reason
BoS might be, because they dont want advanced tech in the hands of locals. But they have a reason

House has no reason whatsoever to stop the FotA from getting valuable health technology, but he stil does it.

Double post, ignore