I'm starting to think the wizard House, the scarecrow Kimball and the tinman Caesar are all portrayed depending on personal view.
Those that actually come off as anything other than witches Eviill or grey.
Tend to be those minor settlements just looking out for their own people and communities in OZ the Mojave.

You can side one way or the others with factions or heads of magical lands rich cities.
How they end up ruling or even their basic dialogue and attitude is based on how much you go against their objectives.

Not really. It's very likely these people actually settled in Vegas after the war. Their considered tribals and are a quite diverse bunch we are led to believe. There were also very many of them, it's really hard to say which of them were truly native to that area (if any) and which had come in and settled in the ruins.
Had the area been hit by bombs it would have been populated after the dust had settled (like the LA Boneyard). But populated all the same.

In the end, though there really isn't a truly evil faction, there isn't even a truly antagonistic faction. The closest thing is the Legion.
House is ruthless and quite willing to use excessive force if it's not too costly. Threats are eliminated one way or another. But if you do not pose a threat you are free to do as you like (as long as you are rich enough to enter Houses domain).

Like we haven't killed dozens of people by then.

Here's how I see it.

House wants the same thing as the NCR and the Legion, and he will do in similar ways. If they are all shades of grey, why would I help out a single person as oppose to an entire army?

Well his lust for wealth shows he willing to do anything to maintain control over the strip.

Lust for wealth? House is already rich. I think he's just interested in controlling his little empire and building his visions of rebuilding.


Also, to the thread on hand. I think House is proven to do alot of good, why? In the end, you and Oliver can comment on how House has 'gotten the dam beating in new ways', which shows House can reignite technoligical industries and products.

Forked tongues of..
The wizard House was rich before the war.
Afterwards he'll have nothing that could not be taken by his small army of house bound tinmen securitrons..
The only ways to get that many caps in such a short time without taxing and cheating the families / NCR beyond 80% +.
( made up gremlin figure for Science !! purpose only. )
Would be if he made them his sorcerers self..
You think the battle caps forgery en mass could have been his little hocus pocus scheme.

Considering The Strip now has a 2000 cap credit check (Though the previous one was unknown), I highly doubt people on The Strip are penny pinching their caps en masse. When you have people throwing their caps at you just for you to flip a card, spin a ball, and pull a lever, why waste time paying people to fix a bottlecap maker?

Edit: What's with all these WoZ names? :bonk:

NCR paid for McCarran, Hoover dam and the Mojave assets with services and treaties of independence for the strip proper.
Casino factions were tribals at best, House built up the casinos how much did that cost?
They now count as independent lands, no securitrons can invade without just cause ( for now ), taxes imposed no doubt.
Vault 21's renovation, the lights how much money.
870,000 for the chip and its mercs alone, where did it all come from, 870.000 of bottle caps found in just a few decades ..
I doubt House kept all that chaa ching, ring, ring, ring change down the back of his life pod, mostly in soda pop caps.
I'm not saying Rumpelstiltskin I'm right, as it's all supposition here.
You've got to admit though House does strike you as a bloke to print all his own money press his own bottle caps for a grand scheme to get inacted.




Not only WoZ other drops as well, NV's story reminds me of it and many other media.

I know there is enough people ganging you Martyr, but I have to say....House still clinging on the pre-apocalyptic vision, and we know space adventure is require a lot more resources than rebuilding earth.

Well, if the Strip vendor woman is any indicator of a casinos profits, then we can assume it's 50% for the Family, and 50% to the Strip coffers. But as to how does he continue to get so much money? I think it's one of those in-game vs lore situations. Realistically we can expect hundreds of people vacationing on The Strip, but in game engines can barely support the NPCs it has on the Strip as is. Now, if you have hundreds of rich people tossing their caps at six, alchohol, and gambling DAILY, then I'd be led to believe that its quite easy to get that kind of cash. I mean, just look at a basic idea of the strip

On the Assumption that 100 gamblers visit each day and spend most if not all their fortune on The Strip and you have to pass a credit check of 2,000 caps. Thats 200,000 caps in a single day with only 100 gamblers. Now, obviously this money would fluctuate per day and pending largely on economic status of NCR, since the NCR is a frequent customer. All in all, he may very well be printing caps, but I just thinks it's easier to believe in the 'Strip customer' point I just presented.

@Valkebus- Ehhh, I honestly don't think about the space exploration part, my fanatic loyalty to Houses idea isnt because of space, it's because I believe he can truly revive Pre-War industries and glory.

Whether you see him as evil or not, I think it's a pretty undisputable fact that Mr. House is an awesome character Although not 100% original as a personality, I found him enticing and very charismatic, which is pretty good for a fictional character in a video game - one that only appears as a still portrait on a computer screen, no less. Besides, his related dialogue is actually very convincing. I had, in fact, planned to betray him in my first playthrough, but after listening to his rant about how he saved Vegas and how he would rejuvenate civilization I kinda changed my mind - just like that, that as organic as it gets. I got Speeched by Mr. House

I really am starting to wish the gods on high made a point of where he got his money from post apocalypse.

No I can see over the years through headcount taxation of casinos he could aquire vast sums, if he pushed heavily.
The actual construction of the city not so easy to see.

Back on is evil House, evil in shed carnate.
Oh one thing, we brought up the dreaded Taxes if he truly collects them and at 50% don't tell the legonaires...
As that makes him more evil than bunny torturing, serial budgie eater.

Personally nothing against him. But the first time I met him he was hostile and I decided I'd go try and fix him....I just wanted to talk and as soon as he popped up I was told he would not survive...whoops



The second time around it seems he treats you like a little lapdog. He is the most Andrew Ryan type of the game but no where near as charming in his foolery/genius. So far I have met him and just drifted off in this playthrough.

I wish he could have explained himself a bit better and felt similar about the other leaders. Granted I didn't need to know everything but just solid philosophy or stronger arguments FOR and AGAINST the leaders.

House killed people in pushing them out of the strip. He could have just moved them,

His plans will not benefit mankind, and will only help a few people [Dont tell me he plans to transport thousands of people to a diffrent planet]
Anything could happen if you support house. His plans could fail because of any number of reasons. Raiders, sabotage, survivng kings, anything.
He is not human anymore. Sorry but he lived for 200 years, has no first hand contact with people, and is surrounded by machines 24/7. I like a leader who is actually human and knows what its like out in the wasteland. House does not.
He is arrogant. Treats you like a lap dog, and if you read his bio graphy after you kill him, its a prime example of his arrogance. I didnt mind with Colonel Moore because she is part of a huge faction and only a cog. House is judge, jury and executioner and his arrogance can kill thousands and influence his decisions

Even if that's what is being brought in, the Strip was rebuild only like 10 or so years ago, once House noticed the NCR was (planning to) moving in. And only get big once NCR citizens came in. If you make the rebuilding of the Strip a scavenging action, thus mostly negating the need for money, by using some robots in his casino and resources from surrounding buildings, that still doesn't explain his apparent decades (if not centuries) spanning and costly expedition to find the Platinum Chip.

House...evil? Not really.

The most 'evil' things he does are order the destruction of the BoS and the Kings gang. The second of which isn't necessarily the case dependent on your actions.

As for the BoS...

Well the NCR wage war with them because they want what they got (no two ways about it, they start killing them because they want the plant. Yeah, real moral.)
Arguing that it's 'for the greater good'? Well, that's nice. It's exactly why House decides to attack them. They're incredibly dangerous, obsessed with technology and willing to kill anyone to acquire it. If he didn't launch a pre emptive strike they'd either regain their strength and attack Vegas or at the least start harassing House. It would be, undoubtedly, the most idiotic military decision of all time to leave them be.

That said, there should be an option if the Courier is in well with the BoS and can ally them with House, an unlikely pairing but possible. (Apparently it was originally going to be in and can be re-added by a mod on PC)



All the other arguments against him seem to stem from either ignorance or jealousy. Freeside is destitute because people wish they could get to the strip, it's not like he goes out there daily and nicks their stuff.

I have no doubt he would, if they had anything of value to him.

He is arrogant and ignorant. Read his obituary and say thats not arrogant. Especially the bit at the end, calling wastelands inbreds and saying lord knows how many of them even know how to read

I don't know if anybody else mentioned this, but run through the H&H Tools factory, read the terminals. Mr. House is a jerk. :batman:

-Considering House was conned out of H&H and his brother devellopped a rageing case of paranoi I would say that there is a "bit" of Bias in those terminals.

The absolute best part of this entire thread is how people justify the mass murder of the Brotherhood and downplay the morality part of it. And it's even better when you consider that, as an alternate future, you can ally NCR and BoS. And it's the NCR who actually fought with BoS. House and the BoS had no struggle before this - at least none that I recall. House just assumes they will be a problem.

But no big deal. Because murder as a preemptive measure is ALWAYS the right answer. And it's certainly never evil to kill people before they've done anything to you.

Or if it is evil, it's just a small evil, right? Mass murder? Just a tiny little thing, that's all. No biggie. Go kill an entire group of people even though they've done nothing to you? Hey, you're armed with all your pretty justifications and assumptions, so why the hell not? All in a day's work.

I guess if you measure all that killing on the grey scale of morality, it's closer to white than black because, hey, it's a preemptive strike and even though they've never attacked you, they've attacked another enemy of yours and that makes them a threat to you. It's all good. It's allllll good.

This thread deserves a great big:

:thumbsup:

What? not our fault the BOS bunker had a self destruct function! :whistling:

Even though The Kings are my favorite faction in the entire game, I still don't see what's wrong with Mr. House killing them.
If you make them work together with the NCR, you're making them work together with people who want you to assassinate Mr. House and take over New Vegas. I do see that it's kind of unnecessary to kill The Kings. It's like a 16yearold bully beating up a 4yearold.

I havent done a Mr. House playthrough yet, so maybe I will do so just to get to know him better.

Yes, because working together with people who you don't know are planning to kill Mr. House in order to deal with the supply issues and violence in their part of town is a humongous betrayal and the only way to proof their loyalty is to go ape[censored] on the NCR citizens, because these people are the ones who spend their money in the casinos...

It's so weird how he annexes the entire place in all other play-throughs, but by being violent against the people which he best customers come from and he suddenly has no need for Freeside.

the NCR citizens that gamble in the casinos aren't worth losing control over The Strip, just sayan'