I have a question regarding the new status messages. Right now they tell you whether you're being penalized, which means that if you're hungry and eat something, they'll continue to show up until you've digested enough to get rid of the penalty (meaning it might be telling you you're hungry even though you just ate a big meal.) Would it be more helpful if they went away as soon as you've eaten enough, even though the penalties are still there? Likewise with the numberless vitality menu, it doesn't take the food that's being digested into account, which makes it a bit harder to judge whether you've eaten enough.


I had fat burning and muscle building in past versions, and they'll be added to this one soon. If you go to the Vitality menu, you'll see a "Character" button that shows height, weight, body fat percentage, and skeletal muscle percentage. At the moment those numbers are fixed at character creation and just used to determine needs rates and blood alcohol percentage, but you'll eventually get bonuses or penalties depending on how fit you are. You'll build muscle by being active and eating enough calories and protein. You'll burn fat by being active and not being too high on calories.


It should be capping you at 175% satiation (calories and hydration can go as high as you can make them without getting too full.)

You'll die of alcoholism if your BAC reaches 0.48%, instantly. With calories and hydration, once you drop below -300% a timer starts, and if you're still negative when it reaches 9 days for calories or 3 days for hydration, you'll die. The timers are reset as soon as you get the stat positive again.

Hunger and thirst penalties kick in once you drop below 0%. Sleep penalties kick in once you're above 100% (or 8 hours, which means you've been awake for 16 hours and need to sleep 8 hours to be fully rested.)


The new power lets me use a function that can search for nearby water objects, that way they can be non-activators like wells and ripple effects, so you can bottle water in more locations. Some people were also having trouble with the activatable water because if they dropped a weapon in shallow water, they couldn't pick it back up (they'd just activate the water.) This new system is a bit less convenient, but more powerful and less buggy.


The fondue recipe calls for an entire cheese wheel, which weighs something like 3.5 lbs and has a gazillion calories. Turning that into one huge serving of fondue would mean you'd be grossly full after a single helping, so instead I split it up into 8 more reasonable portions. Think of it as cooking up a meal in real life, most recipes yield more than one serving. I've still taken sort of the easy way out for the recipes, I just balanced it in terms of weight of ingredients vs. weight of servings, what I've done in the past and will probably do in the future is actually add up the nutrition stats of the ingredients and divide them up among the servings.

I think it would be better if they went away after you eaten something, but ONLY if you've eaten enough to clear your hunger, so it would calculate what your digesting, how much you will be digesting from the food you just eaten and how much is needed to be in the clear. Because at one stage my hunger was -1% and it kept telling me to eat and was getting a bit annoyed and had to wait to digest what i had eaten. Suppose it also depends on how much energy etc your using at the time.

yes the numberless vitality is quite hard to judge how full you are, from as you say, it doesnt take into account what your digesting.



Ahh no thats fine, can appreciate why you changed it now and yes i did experience the bug of losing a weapon actually, now that i think back as i kept activating the water and had to reload a save and not drop it lol.

I think the status messages should go away after you eaten something, but ONLY if you've eaten enough to clear your hunger, so it would calculate what your digesting, how much you will be digesting from the food you just eaten and how much is needed to be in the clear.The status messages are so small,white,and in the upper left corner that sometimes i dont even see them....can something be done bout that?

I wish some food item's had more weight. Even with inventory space of 80 you can haul enough food to survive days.

1 thing i like that you did was before id make some beefstew and only get 1 bowl now you get 8 i believe,makes cooking you rations worth while instead of just buying rations......EXCELLENT!!!

I like what you did with the water, I'm wondering though, in future versions would it be possible to set the 'spell' to an adjustable hotkey, that perhaps when pressed 1) auto equips the spell 2) casts it 3) auto unequips, and 4) re-equips the prior spell?

Now, I know that I could always just set it to a hotkey, but anything that makes it more fluid and immersing I'm a fan of

All and all, thanks for a great update to an outstanding mod, oh, and one more vote for the messages clearing once you eat, but prior to digestion. Think about it as our negative feedback hormones, such as cholecystokinin, being released in the small intestine, and reducing our desire for hunger...while we are still in the process of digestion. This would actually be more immersive, as we have these inbuilt mechanisms to prevent us from overeating...just like what you suggested the change would accomplish.

Thanks again

Ok, sounds like that's the way to go so I'll code it into the next update.


Food spoilage would be a good way to address that. I have a system for implementing that but it's kind of a mess.


Another thing I did in the past was up the animal loot drops so that you weren't slaughtering a deer for a single steak, but I'm pretty sure there are other mods out there that do that, so I can leave it up to user preference.


I'll be able to add in hotkeys once SKSE has keypress checking functions. I'll probably try to keep the main mod SKSE-free for the Steam folks, but there'll be an optional SKSE plugin for the Nexus version with stuff like hotkeys and maybe weight slider feedback if they can add that in.

Food spoilage would be cool so long as there is a method to preserve food.

For the Fallout versions you could buy a little refrigeration unit called a RobCo Cold Fission Froster, you'd add it to any container (including robot companions like Sergeant RL-3) and it would turn it into a refrigerator. For Skyrim I'd probably make some sort of magic ice crystal, like a retextured ice blue soul crystal or something. You could use it to refrigerate foods in non-living containers, so you could store food indefinitely at your house but anything in your inventory would still go bad.

I like the idea of rotten food, maybe it can lose some properties with time and increasing the chance of food poisoning. Some foods could be more resistant (forgot the right word), for example the meat dried out with salt.
Maybe some kind of dwemer tecnology for the house to storage food???

I was also going to suggest recipes to dry or salt meat. There is that salt ingredient in the game, after all.

I guess they could have low appeal to balance out their utility, maybe?

Hmmm. Spoilage might not be possible, at least not using the method I did for Fallout. I can make it work for items the player is currently carrying, but I also need some way to get a script running in any container the player adds perishable items to, to keep track of when they go bad. In Fallout what I'd do is create a dummy item, usually a piece of armor flagged as unplayable so the player would never see it, and attach a script to it. But in this new engine object scripts stop running as soon as the item they're attached to enters a container. So I need some new way to attach scripts to containers. I guess I could spawn a meshless object with a script attached, have its script reference a variable in my main quest script that gets set to whatever container the player last added a perishable item to. Sorry, thinking out loud here.

Mod seems rather perfect in its basic form.

I think getting 8 full meals per 1 piece of Horker or Venison meat is a bit of an overload. It's realistic in the sense of using most of the animal's meat, but it also means I rarely need to go hunt and it leaves me with plenty of unneeded raw meat, which I could sell just fine, but I'd still rather be pushed to be in need of food. Perhaps add an option for Hunters or similar of the sort? I like Vanilla's 1:1, but even 1:2 sounds better.

imp ive just loaded up my game again and need to eat so i grabbed some bread but no eating menu comes up nor does it add the calories to the currently digesting menu? i then eat a leg of lamb roast i think it was and it worked fine but then bread and some other things like stew, gives me nothing. Dont know if this is intentional or a bug? Hardly any food is now registering after the update. Only just noticed as ive only eaten after it, tried resetting stats but to no avail.

EDIT sorry imp its my fault, it is conflicting with http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=11481 his food overhaul. Didnt even think when i installed it. Dam bye phitt. Sorry imp false alarm

Unless there is a way to make it compatible? im guessing the alchemy part is compatible.

Whereas the ice crystals would be good for a mage type, some good old salted meats would be better for the average folk. If you can only track items that the person is carrying then perhaps you could at least make it so raw materials break down but salted/preserved ones do not.

If you do figure out a way for spoilage of other materials too, might I suggest the ice crystals be ice wraith teeth, since there is a quest from a vendor in Riften that is about her using ice wraith teeth to keep her meats fresh (maybe have the knowledge linked to that quest?)

Thanks!


It seems odd to me that you would only get one meal out of killing an animal that probably weighs close to a ton. In the past I'd bump up animal loot drops to be a little more realistic, but I realize not everyone likes that so so far I'm leaving that up to other mods. What I did to balance recipes and portion sizes was look at the meshes used and matched the portions to the meshes. The raw venison is a huge haunch, while cooked venison is a smaller section of that, so I made it one large portion of raw meat that you can cook into 3 more reasonable portions of cooked meat. For horker, I based its food stats on whale blubber, which has a ludicrously high calorie content. The raw horker meat is only a couple of pounds, but I had to split it up into a lot more pieces to make each of them reasonable in terms of calories. It's easy calories, but not the greatest food - if you're using the complex mode, horker meat has low appeal, no water content, few nutrients, and little protein. If you tried to live on it you'd be fed but would rack up all sorts of other penalties.


You could probably use the alchemy changes from Phitt's by loading IMCN - Overrides.esp later than his mod.


The method I mentioned in that earlier post will work for non-moving containers, so I can cover the player and any non-living containers. Not sure how to make it work for companions but I might figure something out.

I really like the idea of using the ice wraith teeth quest. Rather than adding the ice crystal to vendors, I could make them craftable from ice wraith teeth, and you learn the recipe by completing that quest.

Im not having no problems with this update...WOOHOO!!!!!

You know skyrim is a great game and mods like this make it an even more great game.

Maybe you could "cap" the levels, so they don't go too high (and it's more realistic, i think), after all, a person could drown theirs cells if drink too much water or dry them out if eat to much salt.
And the human body have a "cap" for proteins and nutrients, if i'm not wrong, the nutrients/proteins are eliminated of the body if there is more than the body can actualy use.

What I did in previous versions was to make the rate of consumption dependent on how much is in your system, which is a little more organic but pretty much amounts to the same thing as a cap, so I might as well just cap it. Once I add in weight gain though calories will be capped by being turned into fat if they get too high.

*Maybe make a bag of preservation(akin to the bag of holding)that merchants sell....give food a time length before it spoils unless its in the bag of preservation,maybe make use of globals or something. http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1343431-relz-bag-of-holding/
*is there a way to make the player actually look fatter in the game if he eats to many calories?

You should try and talk chesko into letting fat insulate you from the cold.

I just uploaded update v0.23. Most notable changes are that status messages will now stop nagging you as soon as you've eaten enough, Riften and Whiterun wells now work for drinking and refilling, and some consumption rates have been adjusted. Here's the complete changelog:


v0.23
UI:

• Status messages, numberless UI, and quick needs check power now factor in digesting food
  
• Numbers-based quick needs check message now also shows amount digesting
  
• Added message to Quick Eat letting you know when you're full
  
• Added "Cancel Meal" option to "Too Full" eating message
  
• Moved "Too Full" message to after you click "Eat" rather than before you enter the eating menu

Gameplay:

• Roughly doubled digestion rate (foods will enter your system faster)
  
• Lowered max satiation a bit so you get full easier (but overall you can eat more in a day due to the digestion rate increase)
  
• Lowered daily nutrient requirement by 20%
  
• Raised daily protein requirement by 30%
  
• Raised daily calorie requirement by 30%

Configuration:

• Added option to disable carryweight bonuses for reduced carryweight compatibility

Foods:

• Lowered alcohol content of generic wine by about 75% (watered it down)
  
• Rebalanced soups and stews to match ingredients
  
• Horker meat now based on bacon rather than whale blubber to be less freakish
  
• Lowered price of water
  
• Added recipe for grilled clam (highly recommended)

Bugfixes:

• Implemented better method for adding supplies to vendors
  
• Riften and Whiterun wells can now be used for drinking and refilling
  
• Set the "allow repeat stages" flag on the main quest (possible workaround for rare installation bug)
  
• Fixed numberless UI bug ("Underfed" now based on calories alone)

Hi Imp, have you looked at how this mod interacts with Economics of Skyrim? I just added EoS, and it appears to have messed up IMCN somewhat. A lot of the food items that affected my "needs status" no longer bring up the "do you want to eat this or not" menu you created, and thus they have no impact on my needs status. Some foods do, but others do not. It's odd.

Edit: to clarify, I was not using 0.23 when this occurred. I haven't installed the update you just posted yet.