Not posting this to "troll" at all, just wanted to see if anyone else is feeling this way. I read in some of the early previews/reviews that the game seems to take a little longer to "open up" compared to the first game, but boy did I not expect it to take *this* long. Maybe it's just familiarity with the game engine and play mechanics, but when I played Fallout 3, it was a hell of a lot more compelling early on and most of the early sidequests seemed to have a point.

I'm around twelve hours in and level eleven, have done most of the sidequests I could find and am finishing up the "Come Fly With Me" quest and keep wondering when the game is actually going to begin...oh, not until I reach New Vegas?

- None of the NPC's have been all that interesting. Sure, the voice acting is fine, but I don't actually *care* about anyone's plight in this game so far except my own.

- None of the weapons seem to matter, they functionally all feel...the same overall, especially with how V.A.T.S. has lost 50% - 75% of it's range. Maybe they wanted "realism", and they wanted people to try to manually aim more, but the way they went about it it stupid. You essentially have to treat every single weapon like a shotgun when using V.A.T.S. and do a lot of near point blank headshots if you actually want to do any damage. Manually aiming almost always does more, even when not using iron sights. It's not about being lazy either, I can do that, it's just that they are nearly crippling one of the major game mechanics and for what? A large portion of the "roleplayers" don't care about being a twitch-gamer who can't sit still. The game seems to have actually taken a step backwards where combat is concerned in an "FPS/RPG hybrid" compared to the strides something like Mass Effect 2 did over Mass Effect.

- So far the "crafting" svcks, especially for ammo. Why do I have this giant list of ammo with these strange conversions that nowhere does it tell you what they are? Sure, I can guess what SFC stands for, but usually I have no idea what the initials of what it's being converted to stands for and nowhere in the game does it tell you, nor in the instruction manual. Why even bother giving me the outcome instead of simply having it like SFC = ??? At least that way it would make it seem like I'm experimenting since *I practically am anyway*! Even in the first game when you would find a schematic for something you wouldn't normally use, it still felt rewarding because you actually FOUND something.

- So far the enemy encounters just don't feel balanced at all, and there are a handful of "whee, I died, let's do that again or simply skip it" sequences. I get that you're not supposed to be some one man army, but the pacing seems really off. You go from, nothing...nothing...nothing...a few supremely easy encounters to mob-mentality/giant swarms that swarm you like heat seeking missiles from nowhere.

- Exploration just doesn't lead to anything exciting. Like I previously said, maybe it was just Fallout 3's "newness" but everything from the beginning seemed to have a point, and you didn't just run into room after room, or building after building of abraxo cleaner and some plungers that serve absolutely zero purpose and most areas had at least interesting sidequests. With how buggy the game is, and with how Obsidian is known for making craptastically beta quality games with nearly stellar writing, I expected a whole lot more. Why should I have to wait until 1/3 of the game is over before I get interested? So far I'm just going through the motions to get through it.

I've read that the writing is much much better than FO3's atrocious writing.

It's funny, I feel the exact opposite. I feel the quests are much more compelling, the characters are much more interesting, and overall, this game has exceeded my expectations :celebration:

Quest wise the main quest is a lot better. I genuinely did not expect it to be anything even remotely entertaining, but it is.

I agree. I liked the people in the first town and was glad to have them like me. The people are much better 'drawn' as well. I have found exploration to be very interesting and rewarding so far. I'm finding the 'hardcoe' thing to be pleasantly challenging as well, food played such a minor role in FO3.

So far (6 hrs in) I am very happy with the game.

I agree with the OP, dont get me wrong, Im enjoying the game, its something new in the Fallout series, but Im in Pimm so far and theres nothing hooking me into the game at all. But In FO3 I was hooked by the time you exit the vault. Im not saying its a bad game, and the VO is good, so is the writing, just nothing is hooking me, I can only play for 1-2 hour bursts at a time.

Though I do like the crafting system, and how you can herb gather ala Oblivion but there is alot of options that are fairly boring, in terms of things to make, they would have been better served Keeping the food ONLY at camp fires, using test tubes or something for the "Alchemy" stuff and splitting ammo conversion stuff but an ammo creator and leave weapons by itself on the work bench. They seemed however to just toss everything together and it makes for a mess of the crafting menus.

Im really hoping this gets better, I was hoping NV would 'svck me in"

This sounds like "eploration is not rewarding" to me, which is how the game feels. If I'm not following a linear path where the game wants to usher me, I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything. In the first game the main quest was very short, but it was made up for with all of the various side quests that were actually very fun and with a lot of interesting characters. Like I said, maybe I need to be even farther into the game before it really seems to open up, but why should I have to wait so long before the game has any soul?

I say: stop comparing New Vegas to FO3. I say: stop the madness.

Yes, they are both Fallout; yes, they are both in the same world; no, they are *not* the same game.

If you want Fallout 1, 2, or 3, go play 'em.

You want a new experience? Play New Vegas. Stop comparing it to other games.

hmmm.. from an "outsiders" point of view, it seems like:

FO3 svcked you in because it was supposed to. It was a completely new game, new developer, for a new audience.

FNV is more for veterans of FO1 and FO2, so is more a continuation of those games. It kind-of assumes you are already hooked on those games stories, methods, quests, characters. To someone who has only played FO3, it would maybe seem a bit.. "hmmm.. why am I here again?" It doesn't help that there is no intro really. You cared about 101, because you were there from birth, growing up, escaping the vault. In this you are given a gun and "go get em", which does nothing for empathy or immersion really.

(disclaimer - I haven't played the game yet! So don't flame me, I possibly will have a different opinion after playing it)

Your comparison is very flawed and you may as well be saying "Halo is not Final Fantasy". No, really? Except that Fallout: NV uses the same game engine and has most of the same game mechanics that the first had and it's in the same universe. The only things that should be all that "different" fundamentally are the story. Everything else should be tweaks/improvements over the first. No one buys something like Street Fighter 4 and expects to be playing Karate Champ.

This was kinda my experience last night. That game is very well done so far, I haven't had any of the technical issues other folks are having, but the beginning does have a very bland feeling. I'm just now ready to leave the starter town, so obviously I am only very very early in the game, definitely going to give it much longer to open up and pull me into the setting, which I hope it does. Doesn't change the fact that I did stop playing early last night and loaded up an Oblivion game I had started not long ago instead though. ^_^

Game looks great, characters seem well done with more to say, the beginning just didn't connect with me the way I think it was supposed to. I was much more invested in my character by the time I left the vault in FO3 than I am leaving Goodspring in NV. We'll see what happens from there.

This sounds like you're stretching. Having a good main quest does not so much as imply anything about exploration, let alone that exploration is unrewarding. You're only at the second town. Heck, there's two other towns nearby that aren't even main path towns, have you visited them?

There wasn't a lot to explore just by following the path between the Vault and Megaton in FO3, either.

Just you.More people more quest more weapons more clothing, flat out more eveything.

I've played FONV for about 4 hours now, and I like the idea that you're given a vague sorta main quest, and the rest of the time you have to figure out what to do. FONV isn't designed to hold your hand telling you do this, now do this and now do that. YOU have to figure it out yourself. After only 4 hours I've already come across 3 decision points where if I do A, I can't do B. And if I did A before, I can't do D but have to decide between options C or E. (I'm being vague here so I don't ruin any surprizes for people.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw

Same here. And the main quest isn't all hand-holding and somewhat linear like the FO3 main quest was. The dialogue is tons better (IMO). Tons of choices and such when conversing with people. A lot of the conversations thus far remind me of FO1 and FO2

I completely agree with this, I think NV is more like a love letter to the FO 1/2 fans, and was tailored to their tastes and everything. Nothing wrong with that, but I think it might put some people off.

I can see both sides of the argument here.

Compared to FO3, NV has had a much slower build up to the main quest.

For me, I think this is due to the amount of things you can involve yourself with before actually delving into the main questline. I felt more compelled to discover my surroundings and the things nearby since this place is new; there is so much to explore and walk to right out of the bag.

Conversely, with FO3, I felt more compelled to start right into the main questline, especially with Megaton being RIGHT OUTSIDE vault 101's entrance. The manner in which you exit the vault in FO3 is the reason why you are compelled in the first place - you want to know right away what's going on and all the stuff you have to discover kind of takes a backseat to the development of this newfound mystery.

Even when you're confronted with a few sidequests at Megaton, the main draw is talking to Moriarty, and so goes the rest of the game (or at least that's how it was for me).

I actually appreciate this game for it's "walk not run" pace at the beginning. It's as though you're being encouraged to discover the wasteland before you discover the Strip, which is obviously the draw and main focus of the game.

In short, I think the flow of this game lends itself to developing a "personality" so to speak for both the wasteland and the Strip, giving you two very unique but equally involved experiences within the same game.

As far as the difficulty goes, this is a step up from the last installment. Way before the end of FO3, you reached a point where defeat didn't seem likely. Your character never really seemed to be in any danger because of the way things were scaled and the only real way you would be killed was if you went somewhere unprepared.

However, when I go somewhere in NV, I have to be sure I have enough ammo to enter and that the ammo I have is for the weapons I think will benefit me the most. I have to make sure I can heal before attempting an attack and makes me think strategically about how I want to go about things, whereas I would have simply gone in with guns blazing in FO3.

I think a lot of casual gamers will have a problem with this rendition of Fallout, but for those of us who love all of the Fallout traits and want to experience everything the game has to offer, this one hits it right on the head.

That is why I think this game surpasses FO3 in many ways.

More weapons that play the same and "more clothing" that's nothing more than cammoflauge to get past certain areas because every enemy now has ultra perception regardless of your hiding skill or surroundings. More fluff doesn't necessarily mean "better" and a lot of it just feels like useless garbage.

It is just you and a few others. Fallout 3 was not at all compelling. I wandered and took forever to complete the quests not out of curiosity, but boredom. I really love certain skill checks you get now--Obsidian makes all skills relevant in the game instead of saying "[Speech] success! You talked someone out of sixually violating another person" after every problem.

The limitations in New Vegas are, ironically, liberating.

Eh? I still got my ass handed to me at level 30 a number of times in FO3. Also, I am sure you have not attained a similarly high level and all of the best gear, so I think your comparison is disingenuos. :stare: (<----- supposed to be more "I am watching you! :toughninja:" than "I am angry at you", but it was the best I could find. More emoticons Bethesda!)

Game mechanics could be better explained (ie. crafting) and the world could be a bit more detailed.

But other than that, this game has surpassed my expectations, and I can't say I agree with any of your other points.

It takes time to digest trying to learn some of the new weapon mods, creation and ammo 'breakdown', but other than that, I'm having a good time playing FNV.

This is a wide open landscape, with more flatter plains to cross, where Fallout 3 tends to have more hills you can't see past as you traverse them. That affects the sense of discovery to a degree.
I love Fallout 3, so this game still has to earn its place next to that masterpiece, but it's looking promising so far.

I don't find the game particularly "challenging" as much as "cheap". It's the way enemies rush you in this compared to the first and you literally have to already know ahead of time what you were getting yourself into to handle it because you never have time to actually DO anything before they are on top of you. V.A.T.S. is especially weak in this regard now as well. In PnP terms that's "Non role-playing information". I shouldn't be punished time and time again because I want to explore, maybe if I was playing hardcoe at the start, but I'm not. And so far, NONE of the weapons feel specialized in any way, it's all the same generic feeling. Some weapons have a slightly higher damage over another while one may have a higher ammo count, but that's it and it's very dull. Specialized ammo is also very hard to come by, so you are essentially stuck with using the same weapons over and over again based off of the ammo types enemies drop.

I both agree and disagree with the OP. Fallout 3 was engaging right from the start, with Liam Neeson's warm, soothing voice coaxing you to take your first baby steps. In NV its like doing a checklist and then boom, here's your guns and clothes now head out there and......do.... something. If you want to. Sure, you can go find out who shot you and why but at this point I don't feel any specific desire to do so. I do like helping out the other wastelanders but that's personally gratifiying for me so some other people may have issues there. The whole ammo thing is also a pain; maybe cuz I'm not a gun nut. How am I supposed to know that the cowboy repeater takes .567 magnum (I think)? Couldn't they just call it 'rifle ammo' or 'repeater ammo'? And the ammo recipes have the same flaw; at this point I'll be buying a guide to just to make sense of the crafting. As for combat, its been a rollercoaster. The rocket-factory with ghouls? piece of cake; they flung themselves into the path of my bullets. The nightkin in the basemant? took me hours. On a short sidequest to rescue some people from the Legion, I was up against about 6 guys, some melee and some ranged. Took me the better part of 3 hours because apparently the melee guys can take enough bullets to die from lead poisoning while leaping at me with cleavers in hand and hacking off huge portions of my health with each hit. All while the ranged guys pepper me with bullets with near-pinpoint accuracy at non-VATS ranges. Very fun.

On the whole, I think the game is good, but it will take some getting used to. When I started, I did want to be in Vegas right away and for a while I was disappointed about the delays but I think that's just because of the hype and marketting for the game. All the info we got before release was focused on Vegas so we all expected to start there. Now that its out we have to readjust our thinking a bit. The same will probably go for the rest of it as well; try to take the game on its own merits and see how it does. I still think those Legion bastards were using cheats though