So, other than wanting float up to places that have no reason or purpose to go to for the game, as in no loot, no NPCs, no marked or unmarked quests, no Easter Eggs, the spell is not needed.

Ahh, see there is where we disagree. It is an open world my friend and there is a lot more to do than just quests. There is admiring the view to consider. As I mentioned earlier, the view from the highest rooftops in the city is fantastic. It should be on everyone's list of 1001 Things To Do in TES Before Your Character Dies.

There are also the combat advantages of high perches.

And there may be some Easter Eggs/loot. I found some interesting stuff/loot on rooftops in Crucible (ale, food and a magical ring). Cannot remember if those particular rooftops were accessible by ordinary means or not, but they were pretty high and seemed rather inaccessible at the time. Apparantly that is part of an unmarked quest called the "paranoid roof watcher." The UESP says you need a high acrobatics skill to get up on these roofs, but it does not say how high, so I don't know if that particular jump qualifies as a super jump or not.

Regardless, as to your point that the "spell is not needed," I never said it was "needed," just that it was wanted. You don't "need" a lockpicking spell in Skyrim because you have lockpicks. That does not stop folks from wanting them because forcing a mage to use a lockpick is poor form.

For that matter, you don't "need" two handed weapons because one handed weapons work just fine. I challenge you sir to point out a single quest where you "need" two-handed weapons to complete the quest. You cannot, so your argument that levitation is not needed applies with equal weight to two-handed weapons. They are not needed and serve no purpose that is not equally served by one handed weapons.

Just like having both two-handed weapons and one-handed weapons in the same game could be argued to be redundant and not "needed" for any purpose of the game, things like levitation and open lock spells are not "needed" to complete quests but they are wanted to add more flavor and variety to the game.

yeah and why didnt Frodo just get picked up by a darn eagle and dropped into that damn mountain? not a good story thats why!

to add levitation into a game like this would turn it into GTA, all graphic quality would drop, npc quality, world quality, but you would get to fly around? no thank you. if i want to fly around there are games for that.

consoles are limited in the amount of power they have and the game must be made so that all of the systems can play. I see people claim over and over that the CK was created for this very reason, to change the game to your liking. Bethesda did give you levitate, no go drop a couple grand on a computer and make it yourself.

Levitate adds so little to the game when you see what yo would have to give up, they detailed so much stuff in this game and people just want to fly past it. not to mention the amount of threads we already see that claim that fast travel is cheap and un imersive. and yet now people want to zip fly from helgen, to whiterun, to high hrothgar, to alduin, to done?

plus if Levitate is available to NPC's as well then its pointless, same battle now its just in the air, that may work in FF7 AC for looking epic, but i dont think it will have the same impact.

and if all else fails its still in morrowind, they didnt take it away. and there are many graphic mods to update it.

want a morrowind style game? play morrowind
want a oblivion style game? play oblivion
want a skyrim style game? play skyrim

You are making an argument about a Role or Character Choice, this is a thread about a Spell. But, let's use your flawed logic, name me a Role that Requires, or even Needs Levitation.

Interesting.... your saying if I want to do something that's from an old game, all I have to do is play it?

Mystic Levitator

Its completely beside the point if its needed or not.
I want it, because it is cool.
That should be enough.

Its irrelevant if it is required for any role, and of course the last two games have nothing interesting way up, as there is no levitation.

The world is poorer without levitation, because flatter.
A ledge up in a dungeon now is just scenery and will never contain anything interesting, because you cant get there, so nothing is put there.
I would like the 3d element back.
I would like to feel a mage again.

The confusion comes from you saying you liked levitation in Morrowind. Why then would you not like levitation in Skyrim or Oblivion or unnamed sequels? Simply because there is no need for it in the latter two games? That's precisely the problem people have with removing levitation. It's not the spell on it's own that matters, it's what that spell can do and how that effects greater design elements. The removal of levitation necessarily means level design is all ground based. You lose real verticality in the environment because everything must be accessible by foot. Separating the spell from what including the spell means is disingenuous, I think.

The game mechanics doesn't support it, it wouldn't make sense to have it in just to please us. That's just like giving us guns because some of us like to shoot guns.

We used to call these exploits back in the day, because the AI had no counters whatsoever. If we had possibility to "fly" in dice times, rest assured the GM would come up with some brilliant plans to counter against it (or anything else we could come up with, which was a lot since fantasy was the only limit).

Note that I wouldn't mind some kind of short levitation effect, but I don't want what we used to have in Daggerfall. You know, when casting spells (without absorb exploit) had an associated cost. Now that they've made "everything" completely free (would be blasphemy in dice game rule sets), probably to suit the "casual gamer", just - no thanks... It's not something you just add and call it a day. The game needs to have content to support it, and AI to make use of it - or else - exploit hell.

No. I am responding to your argument that things like levitation are not needed because you can complete all the quests without them. I am pointing out that your argument applies with equal force to two handed weapons because those are not needed to complete any quests. It has nothing to do with role or character creation. One handed weapons work just fine. Two handed weapons are not needed. So, in your ideal world we would have no two handed weapons because they are not needed?

But even using your flawed premise that I am talking about role or character creation, name me a role that requires two handed weapons? Lots of barbarians in fiction use one handed weapons. Two handed weapons are just as unneeded as levitation. They are in the game because they add flavor.

Now, Lawlieta does not like the flavor that levitation brings to the game, but that is a different argument. Your argument was that levitation should not be in the game because it is not "needed" and I have yet to see you mount a defense for that argument.

Yeah, I have noticed that the Skyrim AI is a little better than prior games at dealing with situations when my character is in an inaccessible location using ranged attacks. Even without levitation or super jumping in Skyrim it is not that hard to position yourself in locations where the enemies cannot touch you if they don't have ranged attacks. Coming down steep hillsides to attack your enemies from above is one example. If the enemies in Skyrim are not equipped with ranged attacks, I have seen them take cover, rather than just stand there and be hit with my ranged attacks as they would do in prior games.


Yeah, in my ideal game world there would be no free casting enchant suits. I think the reason they don't call it an "exploit" anymore is because Skyrim is so full of "exploits" that you can no longer call them that because they were an intended part of gameplay. If they brought back levitation, my view is that it should be a master level spell that only provides a slow fall effect unless you take a master perk to get full levitation. And it should be a high magicka drain spell so you wouldn't be able to keep it up during combat for long unless you had a free casting enchant suit. If you went to that much trouble to be overpowered then you should have the freedom to go for it in a game like Skyrim when every character is overpowered by level 50 anyway, unless you purposefully gimp them.

Why do you say graphical quality would have to drop if you had levitation?


I don't think anyone wants levitation to "fly past stuff" and miss it. I'd be willing to bet 100 Septims and a brawl that 98.4% of folks who want levitation back don't use fast travel and the last thing they want to do is use levitation to miss out on exploring the game world.

Levitation in vanilla Morrowind was a fairly slow process, nothing like flying. More like swimming through air. It was no substitute for fast travel and no one "zipped" anywhere with it that is for sure. You might be able to avoid climbing those 7,000 steps, but it would be faster to sprint from Helgen to Whiterun than to use levitation to get there. I do not understand your point?

The fact is alot of these books were in the games before they made excuses to remove levitation.

Vanilla Skyrim is so broken in terms of balance that they might as well have just given the player a clipping spell instead of Flames.

I really don't understand this argument.

Any real reason that Bethesda removed levitation is just some "excuse" because... what? Deep down they are evil and lazy?

They can't add EVERYTHING to the game. If they could, we would have a game with an infinite amount of content. Bethesda made the decision to add content X instead of content Y, and I can come up with several reasons for this (and there are probably more):

- It would take too much time to add content Y compared to content X, due to software or hardware limitations, etc.
- More people wanted content X in the game compared to content Y
- Content X is more important for the game than content Y

There you go, several reasons why levitation was excluded from the game, free of charge! Oh, but let me guess, these are just Bethesda's "excuses" and I'm suddenly a blind sheep who can't tell the real "facts" from foul propaganda?

You can't have everything. Bethesda excluded levitation from the game because it wasn't practical or possible to put it in. In terms of development time, they sacrificed levitation in order to add or keep something else in the game. If Bethesda didn't have a reason for removing levitation, then they obviously wouldn't have removed it. And no amount of whining, demanding, or requesting will suddenly make levitation appear in the game again.

Alrighty then, I see your point. However, the same could be said for anything and everything that is not in the game that some people on this forum would like to see, with the possible exception of obvious bugs and glitches that people want fixed.

The real issue, I think, is that this was a feature of previous games that was removed. If levitation wasn't in Morrowind, nobody would be demanding it to be in this game because it wouldn't have been 'removed' in the first place, it simply wouldn't have 'been added'.

The ultimate lesson is that you can't please everyone.

Any person who wants to wield a weapon with a greater reach has to do 2 Handed. I don't see why you keep bringing up this argument in a thread talking about a spell.

And anyone who wants to reach a high ledge or a rooftop has to do levitation. I don't think the argument that levitation should not be in the game because it is not "needed" is a valid argument. That was the point I was trying to make and my reference to 2H was just an example of something that is not needed that exists in the current game. There are many other examples of things that are not "needed" but are there for flavor, like catching butterflies. Totally unnecessary but fun. I view levitation the same way. Totally unnecessary but fun and adds flavor.

I like all kinds of features from other games. But, I don't want or expect every game to have the same features, because what would be the point of playing different games if they all played the same way? Yes, I liked Levitation in Morrowind, that has nothing to do with Skyrim. There is no reason to Levitate in this game as far as I can tell. I have not explored the whole map, but never once did I say, I wish I could levitate. The challenges of the terrain is what I like in this game. In Oblivion, I never missed Levitation as again, I never needed it to play the game.

What Rooftop do you need to get to in the game? What high ledge do you need to get to that you can't get to in the game?

But Bethesda did bring back some things from Morrowind that were cut from Oblivion. Dwemer ruins and Enchanting as a Skill are two examples that jump to mind. So the fact that something was cut does not mean that it will never be brought back. And Bethesda does listen to these forums so if enough people ask for levitation to be brought back there is some small chance it will happen someday. Maybe not in Skyrim, but maybe in TES VI.


A wise man once said: You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

+1

There you go with your "needs" argument again. Man, this is a game. It is about fun. It's about doing things with your own style and grace in a way that is aesthetically pleasing to each individual player. It is not about the bare minimum "needed" to accomplish a particular goal. When do you "need" to chase butterflies?

I want to see the view of Whiterun from the top of Dragonsreach. Is that so hard for you to understand?

It is useful too.