The racisit bit is way over blown. The nord people as a whole are racist against most non-nords. Hatred for the elves has been there since the Dawn, its not new and its not something the stormcloaks made up.

If you go to Windhelm and listen to them Ulfrics not so bad, he does at least have some insight into why not everyone feels as he does
His sidekick though (the one who sends you on the ridiculous initiation), he is unbearable. Hope Ulfric puts him down a few times or this is my first and last Stormclaok

I always support the Stormcloaks. My Argonian joined them and proved himself worthy to be a true defender of Skyrim and was treated as such.

It's a considerable stretch to compare the Stormcloaks to the Confederacy during the US Civil War. There are some racists in Windhelm - but keep in mind those "damn Elves" everyone mutters about are actually the rising power in Tamriel, and directly threaten Skyrim's traditions. Makes sense that some Stormcloaks would stereotype all Elves as belonging to the Thalmor, but stereotyping is hardly the same thing as institutionalised slavery.

I'd say that it's hard to choose sides in the civil war questline not because of the virtues of both sides, but because of the *faults* both sides exhibit. I haven't finished the questline for either side yet, but on balance I'd prefer the Empire. They have the benefit of legitimacy, but beyond that they do seem to have the peoples' best interest in mind. Ulfric's position and claim were never really clearly articulated for me. But in Helgen, it's General Tullius who urges his men to get the townsfolk to safety. And in general, the Empire has the benefit of playing defense through the first part of the civil war, which always feels like the "right" thing to do.

My first playthrough with my Imperial rogue, I went with Hadvar. He seemed a decent fellow, and that Nord was far too fatalistic for my taste. My Redguard mage (modelled on Quick Ben from Steven Erikson's Malaz series) is an imperial cadre mage, and is working through that questline.

A Bosmer who sides with the Empire? It's possible, but you'll be considered a rebel in your homeland. Valenwood is Thalmor territory. If you imagine yourself a resistance fighter against the Dominion then perhaps you could role play that. But the implication is that your family and loved ones back home would probably suffer horribly for your actions.

Actually this is a very good point - If the balloon goes up Hammerfell would be very unlikely to aid the Empire but an independent Skyrim is a different matter.

I also don't take the whole "Skyrim is for the Nords" thing as being as racist as a lot of people seem to interpret it as, I see it more as an anti-Empire/Thalmor sentiment.

I've played it through on an Imperial (siding with the Empire) and a Nord (Stormcloak). After that quest I shelved the Nord (and his 40 levels). I just didn't like the outcome and it kind of left bad taste in my mouth. The Empire are pragmatists and are biding their time where the Thalmor are concerned (Tulius and Rikke explain this). The Stormcloaks are too much in for throwing out the baby with the bathwater and it was alluded that Ulfric might be amenable to Thalmor contact/relations if need be. The guy is just a jerk and racist to boot. After doing the Stormcloak quest line with the Nord I felt like a svcker.

You ever wonder why you can't talk to Ulfric about the Dunmer and Argonians? Beth can't give a reason that sounds good for that and they want this whole civil war thing to be a gray area. Ulfric is just making a play at power at while the Empire seems weak. Plus the whole Talos thing is hard to fight for when Ulfric wouldn't let the people in the Reach believe in their own gods.

So basically I view the Stormcloaks as the human equivalent to the Thalmor.

My Altmer hates the Thalmor (as only an Altmer can) and sees Ulfric as playing into their hands. My Breton just hates Ulfric for what he did in the Reach. I'd like my Nord to support the Stormcloaks, but doubt I'll be able to bring myself actually to do it.

My Orc supports the Stormcloaks and he gladly cuts down all Imperials he comes across.

If you actually read into the storylines and backstories of the two sides, it's painfully obvious that the "best" option if you want to be a good character is to side with the Empire.

The empire is good, but weakened from the Great War. The Nords were largely unaffected by the war (being that it mostly took place in Cyrodill, and the southern provinces, and in hammerfell), so they didn't really have a good perspective on it.

The only reason why they rebelled was because the peace treaty was seen as being weak, and Nords (who are natural warriors of pride) didn't want to associate with this.

Having any kind of literary knowledge would tell you that such an attitude, while admirable, is a character flaw.

The thing is, if the stormcloaks win, Skyrim is cut off from the empire. The empire is pretty much doomed to fall at the hands of the Thalmor, and the Nords WILL be garunteed fail against the armies of the elven empire. If you support the Stormcloaks, you support the elves in the long run. Yes, the empire signing a [censored] peace treaty is kind of [censored], but it is the lesser of two evils.

Secondly, Ulfric doesn't actually give a damn about long term conciquences, he just wants power. He is basically Hitler, in the sense that he uses his authortarian personality and his public speaking ability to win over the emotions of people to support his cause. The people think his cause is good and just, when in reality its just a buy for power and the desire to become high king. Meanwhile, he has very racist intentions, and brutally murders his opponents in his conquest for power. He is, basically, the nord version of the Thalmor empire. Especially since the Thalmor see him as an asset and PUT him in the position he is in (he was caputred in the great war and would have been imprisioned otherwise).

Now the empire is weak, which is bad, yes. However if the empire unites against the Thalmor threat, then you won't have to worry about stupid laws like forbidding talos worship anymore. You'll also be protected and be a member of an empire. You also must remember the empire was started in Skyrim, and Skyrim is the birthplace of man. It's not some foriegn territory that the nords unwillingly joined and they wish to rebel against - it is something that was apart of Skyrim since the very beginning. Skyrim IS the empire. If you don't support the empire, you basically support the downfall of Skyrim just so a bigot can get in power.

That's why you can pretty much assert that if you join the empire, you join the "chaotic good", while if you join Stormcloaks, you support the "chaotic evil" side.

There is only one thing i know, and that is this.

The Elves started it. If they didn't burn down the nords first built hold out of fear at the dawn of man, none of these current events would be happening.

Multiculturalism is a failure, Ulfric knows this...

Valenwood already left the empire. It seems rather hypocritical to fight to force Nords to do something your own people wouldn't.

Also, Stormcloaks are not "ethnic cleansers." Some Stormcloak jarls have more non-Nords in their court than the imperials do. Look around Solitude's keep and see how many Bosmer you find. Compare that to Riften.

Uh, no. You can call the empire lawful something or other... I would probably say lawful neutral, as they're mostly about self-preservation even if it means dispensing with their own laws.

I would classify the Stormcloaks as chaotic good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

if some empire came up in your countrys face and was like " ARRRRRGH all your base belong to us! " would you alow it? if your country wanted to be free?

The empire only took away the Nords freedom of religion and right of self rule and maybe the empires legal system is a little shaky at the moment.

At least they don't allow the Thalmor to round up citizens of the empire for questioning.

So yeah support the Empire.Good plan.

Side note:Without Skyrim the "empire" consists of Cyrodil and High Rock.More of an alliance than empire

What? I may be misunderstanding you but did you say the Empire doesn't allow the Thalmor to round up Imperial citizens? Because as of now, the Nord's are imperial ciitizens and they do allow them to just round up people.

Yep, Empire. Remember how Rikke said at the end? Its not like they are all against supporting religion or something. Just like in the real world a gov't might do something many citizens dont support at all. ahem like something recently involving our dear internets. But a lot of people even say it seems like Ulfric really just fights for himself and uses the whole "for the Nords" is a cover up. Heh, people do that in the real world too.

As we understood it; the empire is bound to the white-gold concordat that came about with the end of the great war.

We're also told that most people still had their own shrines and worshiped talos in skyrim for sometime; it wasn't until Ulfric stormcloak's rebellion that "predictably caught" the attention of the thalmor that gave them the reason to come into skyrim and "interrogate" people.

The question really becomes; are you still an imperial citizen if you openly support stormcloaks ?

Pretty much this, I also went Stormcloak for the same reason. The Empire no longer exists in my eyes. They are just around to lick the Thalmor's Boots and be their lackeys. Besides The Stormcloaks aren't as racist as the OP thinks. They accept any race that will fight for Skyrim's freedom. I wish people would go back and read some of the lore. The fact is most of the races in Tamriel are racist to one extreme or another. Also the Dunmer were almost one of the worst. Having legalized slavery and the so called Empire never tried to stop them.

In our world suppressing someones religion doesn't help unmake the world as we know it.

As for the Thalmor, they were conducting kidnappings and such before the Stormcloaks even were concieved, even before the Great War (as per the books).

go lore!

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/great-war

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/bear-markarth

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/thalmor-dossier-ulfric-stormcloak

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/rising-threat

My attempt at sarcasm did not go well then.My apologies.

The empire seems to be riddled by Thalmor influence.Authors are writing books claiming mebee the whole Talos thing was a silly idea.They also seem to have some influence on the The Elder Council.

The Cyrodils seem quite content and welcoming of their new elfin overlords.The Nords allied with Hammerfell have a better chance of shoving the elfin treaty up the elfin Thalmors bum.

Very true

One of the reasons, among many, that made me choose the Imperials over the Stormcloaks.