Miraak was just..ignorant to his own existence.

Come on, he is a DRAGONBORN. He is beyond the power of some daedric prince for crying out loud. That alone should have been all he desired.

I don't think you go to Apocrypha after you die. Unless you specifically die there (or rather, consumed and lost there), like Seekers (like, for example, Morian Zenas). You don't sell your (dragon) soul, you're just a champion, enjoy a good relationship with HM. You win, Mora loses nothing, the great villain loses.

TES' endings were always optimistic, it's not likely they would pull a Mass Effect 3 ending; you are HM's champion, but your status is much more privileged. You're not trapped in Apocrypha like he was, and you probably won't be, since HM's influence outside of Apocrypha is very limited. And if you won't go any further, like Skaal girl warns you not to, you're basically good.

Dragonborn is most likely destined for Sovngarde, unless he died a Werewolf/Nightingale/Black Soul Gem.

I think they nailed the role of HM perfectly.

Its fitting that a "God" ends up having everything work out how they planned it and that the players in the game realize they are simply just pawns on a grander game played by those with more power. It kind of puts the role of being Dragonborn in perspective. Yea you have great power but your nowhere near the level of those who wield the actual power.

Dragonborn is great but an angry "God" can still snuff you out anytime they feel like it. I thought it was handled very very well.

This. Seems straightforward.

But Miraak's right. Look what happened to Good Ol' Septimus. HM will tire of us eventually and toss us aside once we get too old. There is no retirement plan for us now. No more getting on a boat towards Akavir to never be heard from again. Nope. Just impalement by a tentacle.

Yup, but what if... Dragonborn will be immortal ? (Truely immortal, not just not ageing).

The thing I wonder is, Miraak could absorb dragon souls to gain health right? What if Dragonborn does the same thing? Or better, what if he expands the technique to extend his own life? That way, the Dragonborn could technically remain on Mundas as long as there were still Dragon Souls to absorb, and from what I've gathered it seems as though Dragons are all over Tamriel, not just In Skyrim. They are just far more common in Skyrim. That and there's plenty of other ways the Dragonborn could prolong his life. I think it's highly likely that he'll end up being immortal. Or transcending to god-hood not unlike Talos himself.

Which means we must mean we become a god in our own right before Skyrim is said and done

Or Hircine... or Molag Bal...

This could have been so epic. The two dragonborns teaming up to fight hermaus mora. When mirrak was being [censored] by hermaus mora's tenticals, I shot at mora to try and save him. Both of us lost here, there should have been more options. Must admit, very annoying how you get your kill stolen at the end. In a dlc about an original dragonborn, overshadowing him with a deadric prince was terrible writing IMO.

If we teamed up against HM, we'd both be dead...

This, soooo much...

On the soul thing - has anyone suggested that maybe given all those souls you have floating around your body you can just give those to the various princes instead?

On his on plane, probably. But in Mundas, HM wouldn't stand much chance at all. Personally I think The combination of Dragonborn and Miraak would definitely be enough to at least give HM a hard fight, if not end him outright.

In his own plane, it's not a "probably". We don't even have a 0% chance. In Mundus, it's possible, but unlikely. The only precedents (to my knowledge) for such an event are Almalexia and Sotha Sil banishing Mehrunes Dagon and Martin transforming himself into an avatar of Akatosh at the cost of his life and the Amulet of Kings to banish Mehrunes Dagon again.

We don't know how an aspect of Hermaeus Mora would handle itself in Mundus. Would he manifest in a way that even allows him to be harmed? Daedric Lords are naturally weaker in Mundus, but they're still incredibly powerful.

you can defeat an aspect of a daedric prince OUTSIDE their realm, but inside? you are within them, they are all around you. your toast unless you possess the power to effect the space around you, like when Umbra took a piece of vile with him.

Yeah, considering a dragon(born)'s soul is a fragment of his.

In all technicalities, we don't honestly know the limits of the canon Dragonborn's power, and as such, we have no idea how strong exactly he is. Clavicles Vile mentioned that the Dragonborn is a lot more powerful than some of the daedric princes, possibly even more so than himself. The keen of ear and eye would have taken note that there was an underlying tone of nervousness in his voice when he said this, leaving one to believe that he may have been greatly underwhelming the Dragonborn's true power.

Taking that into account, knowing that the Dragonborn Is likely at least as powerful as half of the daedric pantheon, I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that his power coupled with that of Miraak's own abilities, would have been a formidable match for HM, Apocrypha or otherwise. I'm in no way saying victory would be within their grasp, but they'd certainly give him a run for his money (or rather, his books)

Mora stabbing Miraak was his last reward. He hopes that Mora will betray you as he himself was betrayed.

Clavicus Vile only said that you were almost as powerful as himself and then only because he was, at that point of time, at a fraction of his true power. With Barbas back with him he would surely still be more powerful than the Dragonborn.

was waiting for someone to state this.

That's irrelevant since Miraak needs the power of your soul to leave Apocrypha in the first place.

True dat. But something. Convince him to stop and join you in not playing his game, work to escape his realm, fight him if it can be done w/ out breaking lore. Surely mirrak is smart enough to see we were both getting played, the only way to win would have been to not play, or play by our rules.

I think as soon as HM hears "we should work together" he'd go Hentai on the both of us before we could say "Lets go to Nirn".

Mora won't betray me 'cause I'll bring him cookies. At least its not Dagon or Molag Bal or someone like that...

I don't see why Mora would wait so long to kill Miraak if he was truly that much more powerful than him. How could Miraak even rebel against Hermaeus at all if he wasn't at least somewhat uber powerful?