The Necromage Perk, along with being a Vampire, has ALWAYS been one of the most Powerful Combinations for Mages. It's what makes getting Vampirism worth while.
It increases the power of ANYTHING magical basically, either on the user, or against an attacker. Enchantments are stronger, summons last longer...
it's pretty Awsome.
But as you said, since all these new Armours have been added, Mages are even more Powerful than ever.

Does necromage increase the lvl range of illusion spells cast on undead aswell? (Considering you have master of the mind)

Meaning can you calm, frenzy, fear on vampires and deathlords that are such a high level that you could usually not have?

I'm not 100% sure, but I can recall I read that it does somewhere. Probably on UESP or Skyrim WIki pages.

That sounds like a blast! But how do you get restoration up so quickly so early?

This I would like to hear.
I've only got like... 76 or something, and I'm level 37/38.

vampire's have a natural 25% stronger illusion spells is what it could be, also perk works like this anything you do that gets added to active powers(minus permant things given to you eg powers from quests and rewards) get 25% stronger it is even shown in active powers it is 25% stronger, for eg it's pretty much anything you equip drink bless summon and ect

The easiest way? use the equilibrium spell to drain your health and then use a healing spell to heal yourself at the same time

Love my little necromage. After years of useless vanilla Vamps in Cyrodill, they finally shine in Skyrim thanks to this and 'Better Vampires'.

Dont really care at this point if it was intended or not. Its pretty epic fun and thats what counts

Just to let you guys know, I've tested this and being a vampire necromage does not increase the damage boost on the new dragon priest masks. The resistance on them is boosted, but not the +25% elemental damage part.

Not to be a nit picker, but Necromage affecting enchantment, standing stone power, and even some perks is very much a glitch though. It is the same principle behind the whole fortify restoration/fortify Alchemy loop.

But otherwise it would be interesting to find out what's the new max value in the enchanting/alchemy fortification. A month to go.

tbh even if the nercomage vampire is a glitch i see it as a one that should of been in the game anyway, firstly it's not that game breaking and it gives worth into becomming a vampire, this is the only glitch i would use because i see it fair price to pay to become a vampire and makes you feel like a vampire should stronger then any other mortal.

Also someone doubble check the claim nanaya27 made it see,s impossibly odd they damage doesn't get boosted yet the resist does

It seems odd, but that's what happened when I tested. I wonder if Fortify Restoration will affect it, but somehow I doubt it.


The new cap for legit looping (no Necromage+vampirism and no Falmer Helmet) is 40% for Fortify Enchanting potions and 35% for Fortify Alchemy enchantments. This is done by using Seeker of Shadows in addition to Fortify Alchemy gear when you make potions, and using Seeker of Sorcery plus Ahzidal's Genius in addition to Fortify Enchanting potions when you make enchantments. A Smithing potion made with Seeker of Shadows and four peices of gear that Fortify Alchemy by 35% comes out at 158%. Combined with Seeker of Might and the Chaos Damage enchantment, the damage potential of weapons is now beyond ridiculous. It's disgusting.

I haven't tested the caps for Necromage looping and/or Falmer Helmet looping.

i wouldn't use broken gear ever as a lvl 81 vampire lord i only have 100 damage swords and 250 damage bows, as i play as a master of shadow and blood magic i have maxed out sneak enchantments(for vampires) and 100% cost down rate on illusion magic, and enough magicka to become a god in VL form

We seem to differ abit on our views here. Ive never used alch/enchant loop and never will - because I consider it cheating. This is because the loop can make you invulnerable by more than doubling your power. Such a gigantic jump in gameplaychange breaks the game and can thus not be justified by it being neither intentional, logical or reasonable.

However I have no qualms about using necromage. Simply because I dont see it as cheating from a logical standpoint. The perk does EXACTLY what it says, making spells 25% stronger on undead. You are a undead (if vampire), therefore it is legit - EVEN if the developers did not intend people to benefit from it in that way. Necromage only makes stuff 25% more effective. This is not a gamebreaking modifier. Therefore it may NOT be intentional, but it is both reasonable, logical and does not break the game.

What I do is go to Bleak Falls Barrow with a turn undead spell.
MInd I prefer playing as an Altmer so what I do is turn the undead, activate Highborn, turn more undead, hide and wait 24 hours. Rinse and repeat.
When I get level 40 restoration I do the small quest for the priestess at the temple of Arkay in Riften and get a handful of restoration spellbooks.
Then I go back to Bleak Falls Barrow and train some more.

By the time I leave there Ill be around level 20 and boy does 'glass cannon' ever apply.
I only take five advances in health and stamina myself, and the rest goes to magicka, so throughout the game there will be a whole lot of enemies that can one-hit me.
I dont mind though, Im a powerful vampire necromage! And they wont get the chance.

Still, even if its a glitch it can be used to churn out any potency of enchantment/ potion/ smithing you are most comfortable with.
For endgame I prefer to get the Ghostblade up to around 100 damage. I take no one-handed perks and no enchantments that boost one-handed.
So all in all that is pretty balanced. A powerful weapon? Very much so. But it wont one-hit a Briarheart, while they can one-hit me. (Never more than 150 hp on my build.)

Thats the point really. It may be a glitch, but it doesnt have to be used to 'break the game'. The wonderful thing about it is that you can use it to make any enchantment, potion or smithable of any potency you deem best. Just takes a little experimenting to tweak things just right.

If you go by the logic in your first paragraph, Enchanting by itself is cheating because it can more than double your damage and make you virtually invincible without any use of Smithing or Alchemy.

As for your second paragraph, while there is a good argument for spells that you cast on yourself like Ebonyflesh and Invisibility being intended to be affected, and you can maybe apply that to self-made enchantments, but there's really no logical reason why things like Dual Flurry which are not magical in nature (going by the setting and common sense, not game mechanics) or effects that you don't cast on yourself like the Standing Stones should be affected, and it's obvious they weren't intended to be affected.

But I do agree that looping, and even just combining Smithing and Enchanting, drains the fun out of the game for weapon users. I do occasionally use it on mages, but only to get enough cost reduction on 3 pieces so I can use a unique item or two while still having a high amount of cost reduction. Other than that, looping really does not offer much benefit to mages over what they can get from normal Enchanting.

To clarify, I don't think there's anything wrong with using an exploit. But pretending an exploit isn't an exploit is just silly.

Ah. but the thing is that there is a camp of players that wants these kinds of 'exploits' out of the game.
That I must pre-emptively protest against though, on the grounds that these mechanics allow any kind of potency, that to use them to 'become OP' is not only wholly optional but also something one must actively work towards and that the range allowed by the system is just plain and simple basking in glorious freedom.
I would much, much rather have the freedom to choose from all of these things than to be told from-on-high that, no, the game will not allow that.

I did a thread on the necromage caps it is called necromage blackbook or something lik that. Anyway. You can make +43% fortify enchanting/smithing gear and +61% fortify enchanting potions and +243% fortify smithing. The big story is that you can make items that reduce spell cost by 53% when worn by necromage so you get free casting with just two enchantment slots.

Doesn't have to be game breaking, a glitch is where something doing against the specification of the intended programming. There is also design oversight, which is due to complexity of a system acting in a way not forseen, but still within bounds of the programming.

Necromage clearly states spells are 25% stronger, Not enchantment, not standing stones, and certainly not some perks. The very fact necromage/vampire boosts some perks when you get those perks, but does boost those perks retroactively if you become vampire/necromage later is pretty good indication it is not meant to work that way.

But that is really arguing semantics. My main question is if anybody has done any research on the max possible value of alchemy/enchant loop with new Dragonborn items, obviously with Necromage/vampire and without. Ie, basically looking for a new version of the Dragonborn edition of the old Character Design Freedom thread. http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1317202-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-8/

Us PC folks wouldn't get it for another month, so no testing from us.

Enchantments are all recognized by the game as self buff spells, which the devs designed that way on purpose. So they knew that NM would affect them. Its not an oversight. Same with standing stones.

I hate to say it, but I think that we brought that camp down upon ourselves. The Necromage exploit is among one of the most well-known glitches in the game. In fact, anytime you hop on a vampire thread that discusses the advantages to vampirism, it is among the first things that are mentioned. I am guilty of that myself. The master race of serious roleplayers seems to clamp down on it not because it is OP, but because it offers such an advantage that there is no incentive not to force Restoration as a skill on any vampire build you make. I won't lie that I am also guilty of forcing Restoration on builds that would otherwise never touch it. That, in my opinion, is the primary reason that they demand that the exploit be fixed.

@Fuji: The bigger complaint that I run across is that Necromage completely implodes the perk system in on itself due to the large number of perks that Necromage buffs. I seriously doubt that these buffs were intentional given how it requires taking certain perks before or after taking Necromage to get the max benefit. The problem from the perk situation arises because they too are scripted as self-buffing spell effects. These complaints became even larger in number due to the respec system that was added in Dragonborn where people that had no idea it could do that now have the option of getting the max benefit.

By that logic fortify restoration/alchemy loop is also not a glitch, as the two work based on the same principle. Only difference is former has a max value where as latter do not.

Anyways, does anyone have tried to see what's the most powerful fortify alchemy and fortify black smith potion one can make yet with the new enchantment gears in Dragonborn?

Thanks.

Can someone tell me the necromage build? I've heard of it yet never tried one myself, also would it be best to be a dumner to eliminate the weakness to fire from being a vampire? Thanks.

Despite what I said earlier, I'll fill you in since the cat has already been long out of the bag. The build is incredibly straight forward. You need to get a skill level in Restoration of 70 to take Necromage as soon as possible, as well as vampirism. After you do that, Necromage will buff a lot of the perks that you take an additional 25% but you must take those perks after both Necromage and gaining vampirism. This does not work on the normal 5/5 perks that start a tree, but it normally works on any perks you take after that. For example, Necromage will buff Extra Pockets to give you 125 extra weight instead of 100. The Destruction buffs will increase by 25% as well. Things like that. I'll add that this is probably why there is a camp that hates it as it's not as much a build as it is an additional 3 perks in Restoration for all vampire builds that bust the power limitations wide open.

As for which race to choose, I'd say that Dunmer, Altmer, or Breton would be best. Vampires are more magic oriented so Altmer could be a good choice for the extra magicka that you will need early on. Dunmer and Breton are also good choices because they fortify your resistance to weaknesses. Dunmer are more specific with their 50% resistance to fire so I'd argue that they are the best choice, but the Breton's 25% increase to magic resistance is nothing to scoff at.