I did a thread on it in this forum called Necromage Black Book. You can make +43% fortify alchemy/smithing gear. +61% fortify enchanting potions and +243% smithing potions. You can also make weapons and enchantments do such obscene damage that picking weapon damage perks or fortify weapon enchantments is pointless.

Cool. Thanks dude.

Hm... quick question, would it be possible to get the values without Necromage + vampire. For science, and because the old threads always had two set of values for this kind of things.

Thanks.

LOL, good thing I decided to create a shadowmage character yesterday! Level 10 Argonian with vampirism, and once I get the Necromage perk, it's on. Granted, I've used the necromage perk in combination with vampirism in the past, but not in conjunction with the sneak skills. I'm interested to see what my new char can do, especially now that there's a new land to wreak havok in!

You may be in for disappointment. In the Sneak tree, the only two perks that I know of to be affected by Necromage are Muffle and Silence. What is weird about Necromage is it only affects certain perks. The list is extensive and its hard to know exactly which ones they are, so I find it best to tell people just to apply all perks after Necromage. The only exception is the Steady Hand perk in Archery. Do NOT take both of them with Necromage as I feel that it makes the game practically unplayable.

So true.

Sorry, I play on XBOX and I don't have a non vampire character to test with and I don't feel like curing vamprism jsut to do the testing. Maybe somebody else has non necromage results.

Hmm, well, never mind. I'm not going the Illusion route with this character, so I won't be dissapointed if my char can't sneak supernaturally well (any more than a normal vampire can, anyway). However, how is the Steady Hand perk affected by the Necromage perk when the PC is a vamp? Does time slow even more, or does it not slow at all?

Oh your character will sneak supernaturally well. Vampirism comes with a +25% Sneak buff and with Necromage, even one Fortify Sneak buff would go from 40% to 50%. Just be warned that your Argonian vampire is going to be very pale.

As for Steady Hand, if I recall correctly, it slows the game down to a complete crawl. It takes forever just to move the cursor to where you need it to be to hit the enemy.

Oh, good. That'll do. As for him being pale, I made him very dak in the first place, and with Vampirism, he's just the right shade. I threw in some red on his forehead scales, and it shows up nicely on his vampiric hide. Also, I LOVE how Argonians get those massive snake fangs as vampires. I'll have to ty out a Khajit vampire to see if they get the same fangs.

Good to know re: the Steady Hand perks; I use bows currently, but my ultimate goal is spells for long-range combat and swords or daggers for up-close-and-personal combat. I don't really feel like goofing around with a bow that is impratical to use when zoomed in. That kind of defeats the useability of that feature.

Fair enough. As the OP noted, the Necromage vampire is officially the most powerful DPS mage in the game. Besides, anymore, I wouldn't recommend assassin builds that make extensive use of archery to go the vampire route anymore. I used to swear by bows, but I have become increasingly convinced as of late that Bethesda did a poor job of balancing crossbows.

Steady hand 2/2 is bugged. If you select it as a vampire and use it your arrows will fall to the ground right in front of you. The only way to make it work is to release the zoom button at the exact same time as you release the fire button. The better thing to do is just select steady hand 1 and 2 before becoming a vampire or if you are already a vampire just slect steady hand 1 which is not bugged and do not select steady hand 2 but whatever you do don't select steady hand 2 as a vampire.

So...
1.You need to become a vampire
2.Take Necromage perk
3.Other perks.
Right?I don't understand the order.I took necromage very late and it means that my other perks won't gain 25% bonus?

Yes. It is very much like how enchanted armor will not receive the boosts until you re-equip it. The problem with the perks is that prior to Dragonborn, there was never any way to fix that mistake if you made it. I should also point out that like enchanted armor, curing yourself of vampirism will not remove the boosts until you re-equip it again. Perks cannot be equipped like that so if you cure yourself, the only way you will lose the boosts is if you respec.

And if I want to get bonus from Necromage I must only respec my build taking necromage early?Not curing myself of vampirism of course.Sorry but I still don't get it.

Yes, the boost applies when you have both vampirism and necromage.
So its best to take that perk early.

Looks like I'm going to have to speed through the college quests to get that one spell from labyrinthian to train restoration lol. Unless there's another good way to train restoration?

If builds is a concern, and you are a min/max player, you might as well use the restoration potion boosting since it is an in game feature of fortifying skills, and do it indefinitely.

Spells that turn undead level restoration quickly.

You'd think no one ever bothers reading posts other than the most recent one. I posted this on the very same page:

To clarify, which of these sequences is/are true?

Become vampire, then take Steady Hand 2/2 = bugged
Become vampire, then take Necromage, then take Steady Hand 2/2 = bugged
Take Necromage, then take Steady Hand 2/2 = bugged
Take Necromage, then become vampire, then take Steady Hand 2/2 = bugged

2 and 4 are true. It does not matter whether you become a vampire before taking Necromage, or vice-versa. It's the things you take once you have both vampirism and Necromage that get boosts. Like someone said above, these effects remain boosted even if you cure vampirism, so long as you don't lose the effect. For example, you can take the Atronach perk and activate the Atronach Stone while having both vampirism and Necromage for 100% Spell Absorption, and if you cure yourself you will keep that 100% spell Absorption forever, so long as you don't pick a different Standing Stone or reset your Alteration perks.

So if you want something to be affected, get it after you have both Necromage and vampirism. If you don't want it affected, get it before you have both (having just one or the other is fine).

I believe that both 2 and 4 are true. Whether you take Necromage or vampirism first is irrelevant, only that both are active before you take Steady Hand. That is the kicker. Both must be active. If you have vampirism without Necromage or Necromage without vampirism, it is irrelevant. Both must be active before you take Steady Hand 2/2 to get the glitch. If you have both vampirism and Necromage, only take Steady Hand 1/2. If it is any other circumstance, you are free to take Steady Hand 2/2.

Thanks guys! The reason I care is Steady Hand is a personal favorite perk, while my char is experimenting with vamp/necrovamp/perk jiggling I would *not* want to mess that one up.

No problem. I wouldn't worry too much about it. It was a much bigger deal prior to Dragonborn. If you find yourself with the glitch, simply respec Restoration and Archery, then take the Steady Hand perk before taking Necromage. You won't lose any of your bonuses that you already had from doing so unless you create a new instance of the effect (re-equiping or respec).

So does the order of taking vampire lord and necromage matter? Do you have to have NM before VL or vice versa