Do NOT disable vSync! : V - Skyrim

» Mon May 21, 2012 1:16 pm

I fired up Skyrim and found a spot in one of the early grotto caves that has easy 200+fps spots. "Stood" there for 15 minutes, occasionally moving the mouse a smidge to prevent that automatic chr-twirling the camera does after a bit. GPU temp fluctuated up and down by about 1 degree...82, 83, 82, 81, 82, 83, that sort of thing. Skyrim doesn't seem to use the 2nd GPU my 590 supposedly has, the load is almost entirely on one GPU.

My GPU fan setting is at 60%, btw. Case has 6 fans in it, also. It's enough in winter (like it is here now) but in the summer I use a room AC unit. Heh.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I don't disbelieve that this could be happening to some people, and the advice to run a program to check your GPU temps now and then is always good. But I don't think it's just because of high fps. (edit: I also don't run SLI...just my "2gpu" single-card 590)

» Mon May 21, 2012 12:34 pm

Why are people even arguing if vsync "damages" hardware? Removing the FPS cap and letting the frame rate go super high will increase your GPU (and CPU) temperatures. If you're one of those people that uses a gaming computer on a bed, or just has terrible cooling, it might damage your hardware (see SC2 release), but that is your own fault entirely and not due to vsync. Any stress testing program would have done the same thing.

If you have vsync disabled you're better off just capping the frame rate to your monitor's refresh rate anyways. You're not going to see 100FPS on a 60Hz monitor.

» Tue May 22, 2012 12:30 am

ok, let me tell u thz...i don't have any "daytime change" bug or quest update/ delay time bug. my days name changes after time hits the 00:00 mark. sun goes absolutely normal during the day or night and i don't have any sound issues with powers or anything, also i don't have it with any physics.

i'am playing with ---

Spoiler

NVIDIA ForceWare 285.79 beta

iPresentInterval=0
bFloatPointRenderTarget=0

also i have TES Skyrim 0.091 Patch 4 by Boris Vorontsov with ---

[GAME]
SpeedHack=true
ShadowQualityFix=true

[FIX]
ForceSingleCoreCPU=false
IgnoreThreadManagement=true
IgnoreThreadPriority=true
FixGraphics=false

and FPS Limiter with ---

[config]
RenderAheadLimit=0
FPSlimit=45

also, from the start my playthrough i set timescale to 6

i have on-board Realtek 8.1 HD Audio(driver ver. 2.66) with those settings ---

24bit, 48000Hz
Loudness Equalization on
Power Equalization on
Full-Range Speakers on

those are my cfg's ---

Skyrim.ini
http://www.mediafire.com/?u4v1s33d91oupm0

SkyrimPrefs.ini
http://www.mediafire.com/?7lwrwp25w56vq60

ENB Home Page
http://enbdev.com/index_en.html

ENB TES Skyrim 0.091 Patch 4
http://enbdev.com/enbseries_skyrim_v0091patch4.zip

FPS Limiter
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34

my sys spec's is:
AMD Athlon 640 X4 OC 3.9Ghz
4Gb DDR3 OC 1800Mhz
2xSLI Geforce 8800Ultra
Windows 7 Ultimate x64

but after thz post i've change it to iPresentInterval=1(just for sure) and forced vsync off in "NVIDIA Inspector" with no triple buffering and "Maximum Pre-rendered frames 0". so i don't have vsync ingame but with "iPresentInterval" function enabled.

ps. hope it helps someone.

edit:
with "vsync on" i have major stuttering near heavy foggy and light sources even with high FPS (60). with "vsync off" it runs very smooth.

» Tue May 22, 2012 1:57 am

When someone makes a bunch of stupid comments assuming I know nothing about computer graphics, pointing out the facts of my experience is not an appeal to authority. It is providing them with a fact to replace their fantasy.

Lol'd.

» Mon May 21, 2012 1:57 pm

Never use the games auto save...ever.

Its a hard fact that if you continually write into the same file over and over, its bound to corrupt.

Sources please. All autosave does is delete the old one and creates a new one. I've been using autosaves fine in ALL of my games. I also do quicksaves, A LOT. If anything, a quicksave file would be the one that corrupts and yet that is the one I use the most.

Maybe running a defrag will help your situation if you get corrupted files. Try running Speedfan on your system and do a S.M.A.R.T. test on the drive and see if it's out of specs. Your files should not be corrupting like that.

Yeah, well, excuse us if being told changing an OS-wide setting that may or may not be as harmless as you say is something some of us are hesitant to try. True or not, beneficial or not, why is Skyrim the only game with this problem?
[...]
One of our monitoring programs is lying then. Which one? Mine tells me that sitting on a menu showing 800fps (in Oblivion btw) is doing nothing to raise the temperature of my GPU above normal game load. Around 75C or so, and didn't go down when the menu was closed and the game resumed normal play for 15 minutes.

I'll believe the CCC readout before accepting that a menu will fry the card when viewed for extended periods of time. Card is fine.

Skyrim is one of the only games that I've played that has linked physics to the frame rate. THAT is why Skyrim might be the only game with this problem. This may be a hold-over from console programming. No idea. V-sync, regardless, should be left on. Plenty of topics on this Physics/vsync issue on the forums.

As far as the temps for incresaed fps??? Seriously...? All 800 fps means is that the gpu has NO PROBLEMS chunking out the graphics and AS SUCH shouldn't have any overheating. Overheating SHOULD happen if you're running at 5 frames a second as this COULD be an indicator it's doing a crapload of work (or it could mean your CPU svcks and can't feed the info to the GPU properly).

» Mon May 21, 2012 2:00 pm

...

...

bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
...

Yeah, well, excuse us if being told changing an OS-wide setting that may or may not be as harmless as you say is something some of us are hesitant to try. True or not, beneficial or not, why is Skyrim the only game with this problem?

Just for better clarity on this particular piece the following is a good resource on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Precision_Event_Timer

In the end it's just a way to use a higher precision timer available to "newer" (2005+) chipsets. No clue if it would have an impact on this games potential sync problems but I can see why he thinks it might.

» Mon May 21, 2012 3:02 pm

No you will be fine. The whole risk of overheating comes only if you disable vsync and leave it at that. Allowing the frame rate to go as high as possible will send the GPU load to 99% whenever you open a menu or inventory. That will cause the heat to rise as well. And if you have a very fast GPU you can even reach 99% load in any indoor area such as buildings or dungeons. If I run a single GTX480 it will hit as much as 200 fps in those places with 99% GPU load and 92c temp. With a FPS limiter this won't happen. In the menus and inventory your GPU load will be down around 30% and you won't have any temperature problems. In the indoor and outdoor areas you will be around 60% load and safe temperatures.

And let me make this point clear. I'm not asking anyone to believe me on faith. I'm telling you that if you plan on letting your GPU pump out as many fps as it can RUN A GPU STATUS MONITORING PROGRAM and check it's temp to make sure you are not killing it. NVIDIA Inspector works good for this. Ideally you would have the game on 1 monitor and the Inspector on a 2nd so that you can see the temp in real time. Otherwise on a 1 monitor setup keep it running in the background and alt-tab over to check.

Dude... higher fps should indicate that the gpu has no problems pushing out graphics. Higher load = less fps and higher temps.

» Mon May 21, 2012 2:26 pm

Just throwing this in, as the framerate - overheating issue did pique my interest. I ran tests using the AMD system monitor tool disabled vsync. I am running 2x 5850's in CF, fan fixed at 60%:

I ran the test using 3 scenarios:
1. Normal gameplay aka standing around the companions hall (framerate at 100-120 fps). This is highlighted in light blue on the excel sheet,
2. Open system menu (framerate at 999 fps). This is highlighted in light red on the excel sheet,
3. Just for grins, i decided to stare at a wall (framerate at 190-200 fps). This is highlighted in slightly darker red on the excel sheet,

The results are pretty interesting (can't seem to make the pics load so you'll have to open the links):

http://i.imgur.com/S34ak.png

http://i.imgur.com/DSfE1.png

It looks like the menus WILL make your util and your temps go up, although not enough to register as a big increase. Whats surprising is if your GPU renders goes up to 200 fps during NORMAL gameplay, your GPUs are going to get stressed, and the temps are going to go up.

» Tue May 22, 2012 12:42 am

Higher load = less fps

what ?

» Tue May 22, 2012 12:03 am

No you will be fine. The whole risk of overheating comes only if you disable vsync and leave it at that. Allowing the frame rate to go as high as possible will send the GPU load to 99% whenever you open a menu or inventory. That will cause the heat to rise as well. And if you have a very fast GPU you can even reach 99% load in any indoor area such as buildings or dungeons. If I run a single GTX480 it will hit as much as 200 fps in those places with 99% GPU load and 92c temp. With a FPS limiter this won't happen. In the menus and inventory your GPU load will be down around 30% and you won't have any temperature problems. In the indoor and outdoor areas you will be around 60% load and safe temperatures.

And let me make this point clear. I'm not asking anyone to believe me on faith. I'm telling you that if you plan on letting your GPU pump out as many fps as it can RUN A GPU STATUS MONITORING PROGRAM and check it's temp to make sure you are not killing it. NVIDIA Inspector works good for this. Ideally you would have the game on 1 monitor and the Inspector on a 2nd so that you can see the temp in real time. Otherwise on a 1 monitor setup keep it running in the background and alt-tab over to check.

Uh, the GPU should be able to run at 100% load and not overheat. If it can't, then your cooling system is not working properly or you've got improper airflow in your case.

» Mon May 21, 2012 7:56 pm

^ true with the only caveat being the assumption it is running at stock (design) voltage and clock specs. There is almost always (much less so for laptops) headroom above it but anything above stock is technically out of spec and cannot be blamed for failure at 100%.

» Mon May 21, 2012 12:33 pm

Uh, the GPU should be able to run at 100% load and not overheat. If it can't, then your cooling system is not working properly or you've got improper airflow in your case.

ding ding. we have a winner.

If you have to worry about overheating your gpu. Something is wrong with your computers airflow or fans. The GPUs as stated by the guy above me are designed to handle 100% load.

This should pretty much end the entire conversation on the subject. Its a fact.

» Mon May 21, 2012 7:46 pm

ding ding. we have a winner.

If you have to worry about overheating your gpu. Something is wrong with your computers airflow or fans. The GPUs as stated by the guy above me are designed to handle 100% load.

This should pretty much end the entire conversation on the subject. Its a fact.

The /fail is strong in these two.
You really think GPU's are designed so all their features may be under 100% load without overheating?

You go and run maxed out FurMark on a stock cooled GPU for a couple hours and watch how your card melts...

» Mon May 21, 2012 5:55 pm

The /fail is strong in these two.
You really think GPU's are designed so all their features may be under 100% load without overheating?

You go and run maxed out FurMark on a stock cooled GPU for a couple hours and watch how your card melts...

done it. No card melting.

» Mon May 21, 2012 7:42 pm

You go and run maxed out FurMark on a stock cooled GPU for a couple hours and watch how your card melts...

... lol... what?

If you did an over voltage sure. In general terms a frequency increase (within REASON) will simply cause the card, just like a cpu, to pull more power than is available and thereby choke / bit-err, resulting in a freeze, BSOD or system shutdown.

A component operating within its design specs at 100% usually only ever fail if there is a problem (bad batch) with it, or it's old and no longer able to sustain operation within its original design specs. Note the latter can be accelerated by oc, especially with overvolt. Faster degredation (life-span) is always a concern when you run out of spec.

» Mon May 21, 2012 9:53 am

I have V-sync off and my temp goes down on menus. I have to agree from my own experience and knowledge that overheating due to high fps is a silly concept. Daggerfall, RCT3, RTW, deadspace 1 & 2, etc, etc. have yet to melt my system.
Though Skyrim has some of the highest temps on my rig I have ever seen, 100% load is usually around 54-60c. Getting to 70 every once in a while, especially odd considering how low my load is hovering, but the temps are nuts 34-70c /shrug.

» Mon May 21, 2012 8:21 pm

You really think GPU's are designed so all their features may be under 100% load without overheating?

I do distributed processing on three machines, so I run CPU and GPU at 100%. Have been for a dozen years, and no failures. Only using cheap fans, and I blow the dust out monthly on Patch Tuesday.
Edit: OK, only been doing 100% GPU for three years.

» Mon May 21, 2012 9:55 pm

Okay so I tried the fix that changes how Windows 7 manages time. Whether it would have fixed the day change problem in Skyrim over time I don't know, but after waiting a few ingame days the time did not sync back up.

Instead I waited until the minute the day name changed, then opened up the console and typed "set gamehour to 0.00", without quotes.

This has now fixed it. I will also try running my OS with this new time fix, and see how it plays out. System restore is there for a reason

» Mon May 21, 2012 11:27 am

How to fix your time of day being out of sync

Took me ages to figure this one out, but I finally got it through lots of experimentation and school boy maths.

Set iPresentInterval in SkyrimPrefs.ini to 1
Load the save, use the wait command and observe what hour the game will change to a new day, mine was sometime within 7PM.
Once you know within what hour the day change occurs, use the wait command to get as close as possible before the day changes (I waited until 5:48PM, another hour and the day changed). Without using the wait command, sit and watch time go by until you know what exact minute the borked day change takes place (for me it was 6:44PM).
Once you know what exact time it happens at, convert that time to a 24 hour clock. So I changed 6:44PM to 18:44.
Now for some maths. See how far from 00:00 the next day the time updates. So mine was 5 hours, 16 minutes early (24 - 18.44).
Get the number of minutes you have, in my case 16, and multiply that by 0.6. I got 9.6.
Replace the old value you had for minutes with the new value, taking the decimal point out. So I had 5.16 before, my new value is now 5.96 (replacing .16 with the new .96).
Open the console and type "Set GameHour to GameHour + VALUE", where value is the number you just worked out. In my case, 5.96.

This will get your day to update normally at exactly 12AM.

Hope this helped some

Instead of using this overly complicated and also not quite correct method (the math didn't work out properly although it makes sense) you might want to type just

set gamehour to 0

at the exact moment your day changes.

My day change occured at noon, fixed now thanks to you. However, i rather reset the time now and then instead of having the bad mouse lag with VSync.

» Mon May 21, 2012 4:35 pm

Instead of using this overly complicated and also not quite correct method (the math didn't work out properly although it makes sense) you might want to type just

set gamehour to 0

at the exact moment your day changes.

My day change occured at noon, fixed now thanks to you. However, i rather reset the time now and then instead of having the bad mouse lag with VSync.

I posted earlier in the thread that it occurs on PS3 version as well, so I don't believe it's caused by vsync, or by the Windows time management.

Did you just keep hitting tab / esc to see the minute the day changes? When I do that it seems to never change. Waiting 1 hour might make the name of the day change, but "manually" waiting for 2-3 hours the day stays the same. Oh well.

» Mon May 21, 2012 1:51 pm

The day updates here on PC as soon as i reopen a menu that displays time. I kept opening the journal, btw.

However, if this also occurs on PS3, plus some people playing without VSync don't get this issue, then this might be something else, yes.

» Tue May 22, 2012 12:59 am

Crazy Physics
Allowing your FPS to go over 60fps causes the physics engine to go a bit out of control. The slightest touch, even opening a door, can send pots and pans 10 foot away flying all over the place. Whilst this may seem funny, it can have disastrous consequences if a really important item flies so fast it gltches out of the playable area.

Happens to me at least once per play session, usually 3-5 times per session and vSync has always been enabled for me. It's usually bones on the floor that go shooting across the room, make a very loud sound and scare the crap out of me. Oh and I take very minor damage.

» Mon May 21, 2012 4:37 pm

After reading through 9 pages, I will continue to leave v-synch off for better performace and avoid mouse lag.

Reasons:

1) the (potentially) game-ending time-synch bug affects PS3, so that refutes v-synch as the cause

2) numerous people have replied that the physics bug (pots and pans flying) exists even w/ v-synch enabled, so that refutes v-synch as the cause

The other bugs either don't affect me, are tolerable, or laughable (gpu 100% load problem). Hey stop reading books, it'll kill ur GPU!!!

» Mon May 21, 2012 10:11 pm

Disabling Vsync gains me 30 FPS. Tearing doesn't bother me enough to leave Vsync on, and I haven't seen any new problems since disabling Vsync.

» Mon May 21, 2012 9:25 pm

Can anyone confirm that disabling V-Sync in the game, instead forcing it on through drivers or D3DOverrider, will cause AI issues as claimed? As the AI is already buggy enough...which is the reason I can't tell if it's causing more issues in my game. My FPS is properly limited to a max of 60.