No, you're incorrect. Apart from the Form ID bug in unpatched versions of Oblivion (which happened faster depending on your framerate), your FPS did not affect anything in the game.
Physics and game timing stayed exactly the same regardless of if VSync was set to off in Oblivion's launcher, or iPresentInterval was set to 0 in Fallout's INI (as VSync wasn't an option in F3's launcher). You could run Oblivion at 120fps in interiors, and run around without vSync on for hours and hours and nothing would happen. It's a bug in the latest version of the engine.

geezz...too many problems the game have. i dont know how about u guyz, but i'll wait for patch. also, never again i will buy any Zenimax game until i see the patch #3 for it

ps. be damned consoles with their patches sertification issues. if not that we are all already have the patch 1.2 for pc.

I had the pots and pans flying around all the time, it drives me nuts. I actually got killed by a flying knife, not even kidding.

The problem is, I have VSync enabled but my monitor is 120hz so it throws the game engine off.

What a POS game this is.

Man i hate when people argue things they know nothing about.

Specifically, Lockpicking in Oblivion is affected by FPS, very high FPS increases the speed that the tumblers would move, and low FPS slowed it down. Thats just a single instance where it affects the game.

They have always tied things to the FPS in their games. It seems like they added a few more this time around, but its present in both fallouts and is in oblivion also.

You can use double vsync if you have radeon pro. It will keep your fps at half of your refresh rate.

I've modded Oblivion for two years, know the ins and outs of pretty much everything, have played over 1000 hours in the game, and not once have I experience that. Don't accuse me of knowing nothing.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the quests bugs we are seeing in the big bug list are related to this v-sync problem. Pretty crappy coding on the engine here. I mean, did they just expect that people would never turn off V-sync? LOL Herp derp.

Oh, that's right. Console players would never turn off v-sync! Because they can't.

I am accusing you of it. What now?


But back on topic. Been an issue since oblivion, its just gamesas being lazy. Or perhaps they have a reason for FPS being tied to things.


iFPSClamp ring a bell to anyone from fallout and oblivion............................

Haha, okay buddy. If you say so.
And iFPSClamp broke a lot of other things, but I know nothing so I won't mention it.
We're not quite sure to be honest. Testing this would be good.

Falsely accusing someone usually results in you being looked at in a bad light. Just saying. Cause he happens to be entirely correct, and you happen to be so wrong it hurts.

i could care less.

He happens to be entirely not correct though.

I have already given an instance of FPS affecting Oblivion, and the same thing applies to fps causing problems in fallout 3 and new vegas.

Skyrim definately has some new things that seem to be tied to fps in addition some some old things. I would love to know gamesass reasoning for it.

This is good advice, but it's not just as simple as "don't disable vsync", it's more a matter of what kind of fps you get if you do. The list of bugs in the OP (plus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD23g62zDIw) are rather a symptom of unpredictable, fluctuating, or extreme (low or high) frame rates.

If your PC and game settings are such that your fps stays at reasonable levels even with vsync off, some or all of these problems won't manifest.

They were so bad on my system that the mouse lag, even as bad as it is, is preferable.

What now? How about you do your research over and figure out how many GAME-BREAKING problems occurred in Oblivion and Fallout 3 from eliminating V-Sync. Answer? None.

Skyrim? Three. The flashing water causes massive, random, and frequent FPS drops, can probably break combat flow (I've had arrows automatically de-nocked from my bow when the water flashed), and definitely cause a huge headache. Physics glitches can potentially send quest-essential items flying all over the place and perhaps through the interior mesh collision, and the time synchronization issue can cause the game's AI to get horribly confused.

The only thing I noticed in Oblivion that was tied to the framerates was the animation speed for the lockpicking minigame. The only thing in Fallout 3 I noticed was the movement speed. Neither of those are game-breaking.

And precisely none of those things were tied to the framerates in Oblivion OR Fallout 3. I've had many a day early on in my Oblivion days where I was getting maybe 200FPS while indoors and never once did I see any kettles or plates flying around the room like there was a tornado inside. Neither with Fallout 3. Never once did the water start flashing in my face and slowing my game down. And never once did the clock become de-synchronized.

In fact, Oblivion is invalid to this debate entirely, http://i.imgur.com/8ELJW.jpg

I dont deny that stuff. But there is a reason vsync was removed as an option, and things were tied to FPS in oblivion, and fallout, which you agreed with, and the same thing happens here. In fallout, objects moved based on your FPS, grenades would move faster farther, ragdolls would go faster, etc anything based on that. Skyrim seems to have taken a bit further.

That doesnt make it a bug. gamesas designed it this way, and yes, it is flawed. Now if Vsync was an option available to disable, i would call whats happening bugs. But they purposely removed it.

End of story.

Anyone sitting in these forums waiting for a fix from gamesas is out of their mind. These were design decisions. They arent going to rewrite the engine for us.

And that I will not dispute is true. Beth clearly did not intend for us to disable the V-Sync, since they removed the checkbox from the launcher AND hid the INI setting from us. And as you say, that is a very flawed method of keeping the FPS in check, as it amplifies any FPS drops that occur and introduces mouse lag. Plus, now that we have 120Hz monitors popping up, V-Sync will actually take the FPS up that high if it can, and then the whole point of V-Sync keeping the frames in check to keep this stuff from happening goes right out the window.

Anyways, I am now running an ongoing experiment to see what happens if I force off the V-Sync from my graphics drivers (it works) and leaving iPresentInterval alone while externally capping my FPS to keep any major glitches from occurring.

If it prevents any time sync issues, then we have an alternative.

How to fix your time of day being out of sync

Took me ages to figure this one out, but I finally got it through lots of experimentation and school boy maths.

• Set iPresentInterval in SkyrimPrefs.ini to 1
  
• Load the save, use the wait command and observe what hour the game will change to a new day, mine was sometime within 7PM.
  
• Once you know within what hour the day change occurs, use the wait command to get as close as possible before the day changes (I waited until 5:48PM, another hour and the day changed). Without using the wait command, sit and watch time go by until you know what exact minute the borked day change takes place (for me it was 6:44PM).
  
• Once you know what exact time it happens at, convert that time to a 24 hour clock. So I changed 6:44PM to 18:44.
  
• Now for some maths. See how far from 00:00 the next day the time updates. So mine was 5 hours, 16 minutes early (24 - 18.44).
  
• Get the number of minutes you have, in my case 16, and multiply that by 0.6. I got 9.6.
  
• Replace the old value you had for minutes with the new value, taking the decimal point out. So I had 5.16 before, my new value is now 5.96 (replacing .16 with the new .96).
  
• Open the console and type "Set GameHour to GameHour + VALUE", where value is the number you just worked out. In my case, 5.96.

This will get your day to update normally at exactly 12AM.

Hope this helped some

The #1 reason to NOT disable vsync is missing from the OP.

With vsync disabled I would get as much as 800 fps when I opened menus or looked at my inventory. And consequently, GPU usage soared to 99% and GPU temperature would jump from the usual 77c up to 94c within 2s of opening a menu! Even in dungeons and buildings where my framerate would average 90-120 and occasional spike to 200 would result in temperatures of 92c. That's much too hot.

Disabling vsync will cause your GPU to overheat. Don't do it.

Vsync enabled in-game = input lag

Vsync disabled in-game but enabled in Catalyst (ATI) = no input lag.

WIll this work that way for everyone? Probably not.

I think this is the first DIY / fixer-upper game I ever bought (yeah, I got Oblivion after a couple of patches came out).

I have a Radeon 4890/1Gb by the way.

If this game is a port of the console version and people believe that lots of in game mechanics
are tied to the fps wouldn't it make more sense that the fps we are looking for is 30
not 60 ?

Wouldn't it also make sense for any dev that tied mechanics of the game to a frame rate
to have the game continuously modify the graphics so as to maintain this level of fps,
when a users machine would drop under it (lessen the graphics ) over the fps ( cap it)
else everybody's game without exception will probably break at some point.

For those with high end hardware the effects would be less noticeable that those
with lower end hardware as the fluctuations in fps will be less

This seems to be the way console games are generally designed from what ive read
but even consoles are having fps drops which means that their games mechanics will also
break

I fail to see how they could expect the game mechanics and timing to run correctly
with the diversity of pc hardware out there .

But again this is just my opinion

Beth used smart V-Sync for the 360, which automatically disabled itself if the framerates started dropping to keep things smooth, although there was some screen tearing.

But they didn't bother to port this feature to the PS3 or PC versions. And considering how important it is to keep it on as we have discovered, it really makes one wonder why they didn't. PS3 has inferior framerates to the 360 because the V-Sync is always on, and the PC has mouse lag, the vertical sensitivity bug due to people benching for different FPS targets, and now we learn that we can't even get rid of it without screwing the pooch.

Bethesda really needs to put more effort into their porting.

Part of me is starting to wish the 360 users might get this bug, too, since they have small stretches without V-Sync every so often. The only way we can guarantee an engine bugfix from Bethesda is if the 360 users experience it nowadays.

I have been following this thread, and I am still in doubt that Vsync causes the bugs addressed in the OP. Aside from the results I posted, I still play Skyrim with Vsync disabled and I do not get those bugs.

I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, I am just wondering if I am one of the lucky ones...

The timing glitch for example, it cannot be Vsync: I still got it with it enabled, and still got it when I completely erased the ini line in Skyrim.ini

OP, you know you are supposed to do the ipresentinterval in Skyrim.ini, not SkyrimPrefs.ini?

Completely incorrect.

In Oblivion and Fallout 3, if you disabled v-sync and the framerate went over 60 fps, the game speed increased, sometimes to unplayable levels. While I haven't ever witnessed the flickering water bug, everything else mentioned in this thread would happen if the game ran too quickly. The only alternative was to limit framerate externally or using a mod of some sort, but even then problems were still occasionally present.

Arguably, nobody should even be running Bethesda games at more than 30 fps, since it's clear their programmers never intended any of their games to run at a higher framerate than that. These are the same problems programmers quickly phased out back around 1998, and yet Bethesda, even with their shiny "new" game engine, have yet to fix these bugs over a decade later. Put simply, it's amateurish and pathetic.

"It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

So if the brakes on your brand-new car are shot, do you just put up with it? If you go to a restaurant and find a severed human hand in your meal, do you scarf it down and thank them for the surprise? If someone robs you at gunpoint, do you hand your money over with a smile and a nod?

Bethesda do not need apologists. They are responsible for the products they release and the PC version of Skyrim (and previous Bethesda games, for that matter) is in an extremely sorry and damn near broken state for many people. You do not need to excuse them. Todd Howard will not get upset; in fact, he doesn't give a flying [censored] - too busy burning wads of cash in his fireplace.

For what it's worth, Skyrim was also heavily marketed as being built on an entirely new (or at least significantly enhanced) game engine. So not only does Bethesda not care about providing functional products, they're also con artists who have no problems deceiving and misleading their customers.

Yeah, as I said in my last post, I haven't see any of those problems, and I've played many many hours now with ipresentinterval disabled (for my whole game) and am now level 20. Now I've checked if my days are changing at the wrong time, but they change at 12:00 AM. I just completed the finding and escorting Esbern quest for the main quest line, and I haven't had any quests mess up on me so far or any weird delayed actions.

I am having some issues with the y-axis on my mouse becoming overly sensitive at times, or otherwise having inconsistent sensitivity. It generally happens when I have my fire spells out.

At first I tried ipresentinterval=0 in skyrim.ini. Immediately upon loading my save, I got massive flickering on the screen. This was around Winterhold, so there was a lot of water. I turned v-sync back on and the flickering disappeared. I don't know if any of the other bugs would have happened, but the flickering was enough to get me to reverse the change.

Second, I tried the d3d9.dll/antilag.cfg solution. This solved the sensitivity problems, but caused certain actions to intermittently become delayed. Which is to say, there was occasionally a lag time of about 10 seconds on certain actions, similar to what was mentioned in the OP. I'd start mining, but I wouldn't have a pickaxe in my hands, and the sound wasn't playing (and then when everything catches up, all the sounds play at once and it's very loud!). Or Lydia would draw her weapon, but have nothing in her hands. Or a quest would take an extra 10 seconds to update. Or there was a delay in things loading and they would "fade in" right next to me. I ended up removing this as well.

My game was running at a near-constant 75 FPS under v-sync. People say that anything above or below 60 FPS causes issues, so I was wondering why my game was running at 75 FPS. And then I remembered that v-sync caps your frame rate at your refresh rate, so I turned my refresh rate from 75Hz to 60Hz. Now the v-sync caps my framerate at 60 instead of 75. I haven't tested it yet, so hopefully that fixes it.

Same, I have almost 100 hours of Skyrim and I am at level 21, and I only had 1 side quest (Hermaeus Mora daedric quest) mess up on me, and that was my fault, not vsync.

The guy who runs the show at TweakGuides said that his tweak guide will be done in about a week or two. I have trusted him as he is amazing when I followed his advice on Morrowind/Oblivion/Fallout3/NV tweaks