Ooops. I meant to say I haven't played Morrowind. Brain-fart whilst typing. My mistake. Thanks for noticing, I fixed it with an edit.

Main weakness in Morrowind combat system was that you could be an master swordman, pick up an warhamer and have serious problems hitting an mudcrab.
Now in Oblivion and Skyrim, you hit but do less damage.

Athletic and acrobatic felt nice then they went up and you could run faster and jump higher.
Yes they should be bundled together and probably add some unarmored functionality

As for medium armor and all the weapon types, I like Skyrim better, add spears to two hands and crossbows to ranged and few would complain.
weakness of having to many weapon types is that the other types become useless as your skill is to low.

lol, you confused me there.

Agreed. Also, voice acting does nothing but hobble the game, should have been left out. 3D map and UI irritating. Really miss the paperdoll. Finishing moves and those fancy loading screens are cute, but I would rather they had fleshed out the game more rather than add those. I've played Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and now Skyrim.

What made Morrowind have such great quests/stories and what makes Skyrim have such bad quests/stories?

For me Skyrim suffers from a lot of cliches, or lack of progression in how they actually tell the story and how they represent the characters. The Dark Brotherhood is full of blood thirsty killers who never feel as if they're truly evil, but merely do this because of some strange fetish. I never fear, or respect them I merely use them for their gold, armor, and training. They're merely tools for me to basically use. The same goes for the Thieves guild, and Companions guild. Almost all guilds lack some type of morals and sanity, which is ironic because the Mages guild is the most sane guild in the game. The guilds pacing also just feels terribly fast, and in the case of the Thieves guild full of fatty filler quests.

The one true quests that I believe are somewhat amazing are the Daedric quests. I actually felt anger, and fear in some cases because they allowed for a great representation of the different princes. There were a couple quests were I felt disgusted, or immoral because of my actions and others where I felt like I was truly manipulated without my knowledge. They all felt like they had size, weight, and power which is something I rarely see in games. I had this similar feeling when you're conducted into the Dark Brotherhood in which I was so pissed off that I actually attacked Astrid which opened up an entirely new quests. The immorality of the situation, coupled with Astrids calms demeanor set me off in a brief fit of anger.

The problems I've listed happen in every game. Rarely are there games in which I feel any sense of emotion towards a character. Which is why I love the more abstract, expositionless approach to story telling in which you're never told why, or who someone is. Limbo and Shadow of the Colossus are two games that made me feel this way, especially Shadow of the Colossus. Taking down the Colossi felt terrible, and saddening, easily the most emotional game I've ever played because I was never told what, or how to think.

I agree with this guy

I've played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim(In fact, I'm currently playing Morrowind again right now, and bouncing betwen it and skyrim. Oblivion will be added to that list when I reinstall my OS), and I feel they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. For simplicity's sake, I'll try to focus on Skyrim

Combat
I think the combat is much better than previous games for several reasons.
Combat Speed: Skyrim is much less of a button-spam-party than either of it's two predecessors that I've played. Sure, you still click like crazy, but it's better than oblivion(running around your opponent while they're swinging at you like a monkey, hoping to sneak in a power attack) or Morrowind(just stand still and keep pressing the mouse button if you're winning, run your a$$ off if you're not)
Use of Stamina: Oh dear God, Morrowind was absolutely horrible in this aspect, and Oblivion wasn't much better. Not being able to hit at all/only being able to give your enemies papercuts and light bruises was absolutely infuriating. I prefer it in skyrim, where you can only use power attacks if you have stamina left. much less swinging and swearing at the enemies' health bar

Magic:Oh boy, that's a touchy subject. I'm sure I'll step on a few toes for this.
Spell variety: much worse in Skyrim than in previous games. It's missing a lot of effects, like fortify attributes(for obvious reasons), poison, absorb health, open lock, water-walking, the list goes on. There just aren't enough spells(and I'll get cookies for saying that, I'm sure )
Spell Use: now here's where I get start getting guys like Merari Mad
I actually like using magic more in Skyrim than Morrowind or Oblivion. It just feels much less repetitive than in previous games(within the very limited scope skyrim has. do NOT confuse that with my point above), and more like you're using magic as an actual weapon, rather than just having a giant rave fight like you did in previous games.
Spell Scaling: there isn't any. that should be fixed. NOW
Spellmaking: My stance on this is rather interesting. I do like being able to make my own spells, but I would much rather see the above two points addressed first, so that magic is interesting, useful and fun on its own. I do NOT want a magic system where I am forced to make my own spells because the vanilla ones are useless.

On a side note, I rate Oblivion's magic system to be the best. Morrowind has more effects, yes. However, there is one absolutely massive flaw in Morrowind's system-magic doesn't regenerate. that means when your magicka is depleted, you are absolutely F^&@ed. That's not right at all in a game that doesn't focus heavily on resting.

Guilds: Ups and Down on this.
Quantity: 1st place to Morrowind. there are so many guilds it's kinda ridiculous. Skyrim should have a lot more political factions than it does. Being able to join the forsworn, for example. Or doing more for the Legion/Stormcloaks than just winning the war.
Guild storylines: That prize is a tie between Oblivion and Skyrim for me. I found that Morrowind was more attached to the world in many ways, yes, but there wasn't any kind of story to most of them at all. It was just "Become guild leader by being everyone's errand boy". There was no urgency to anything at all. Skyrim's guilds feel like you did a lot more to earn the title(Do not confuse this with quest length, that's a different problem entirely)
Progression: Morrowind again. There was plenty of progression, and actual skill requirements(yes, I liked those). Skyrim has practically none, which I don't like at al
Length: Skyrim fails at this. The questlines are ridiculously short, and that annoys me. There should be a lot more content in each guild.
Apparently though(correct me if I'm wrong), Beth only discovered that having guilds be handled entirely through radiant story was a bad idea when game production was most of the way through. If that's the case, then I am very willing to forgive Bethesda for this, provided they remember this for next time, and work on the guilds for much more time
Overall, I'd say that Skyrim's guilds need work. However, if they really were a rush job, then I'd say they did a pretty fantastic job. Beth shouldn't EVER do that again though.

I might post more later. for now, Homework time

Guilds pretty much svck, there is this outline of a story that could be amazing in every single one. But there is almost no "story quests" for them.
The only real new thing to cambat is the adding of a shield bash and power attacks break blocking.
Magic is gutted, it was gutted a bit in Oblivion, but this is ridiculous.
No one really reacts to anything you do, I join the Legion and walk into the Stormcloak camps and their capital and no one cares. Atleast in MW people cared the other guilds cared if you joined their enemy.
Story is short and pretty much uneventful also very predictable.
Followers have almost no story to them.
Leveled loot still makes dungeon delving pointless, pick an expert lock only to find a steel sword.
Beatiful world and music but it feels empty, no merchants moving a wagon from city to city.
Bland enemies.
Casting magic is improved.
Your race means nothing unless your a High Elf.
No ingame politics, Khajiit aren't allowed in the cities except for th PC and no explanation is given to why your the only exception.
Perk system is idiotic and pointless.
No spellmaking very few summons.
Enchanting is improved.

Vanilla Oblivion is better than Skyrim, there is simply more to it. Bethesda relies on the modding community to make their game.

Oblivion had fun magic. Skyrim doesn't.

Oblivion had long faction questlines. Skyrim doesn't.

Oblivion had an arena. Skyrim doesn't.

Oblivion had a disposition system. Skyrim doesn't.

Oblivion had the Adoring Fan. Skyrim doesn't.

Oblivion had a grieves slot and two ring slots. Skyrim doesn't.

Oblivion had unscripted ambient dialogue. Skyrim doesn't.

Oblivion had a menu where you could view your character. Skyrim doesn't.

Morrowind is still my favorite, I think all around as an RPG it is the most engaging. It's only real flaw for me was the combat system.

I do enjoy Skyrim as well, but for different reasons. Obviously the graphics, when compared to the previous TES games, are far superior.

The combat system is much better in Skyrim than in the previous games as well. there is definetly a greater emphasis on melee in this game, as there is a lot more you can do with the blacksmithing craft skill than with the other craft skills. This may have been the intention seeing as the setting of the game takes place in the home land of the Nords.

Overall it's worth a play-through if you enjoy the elder scrolls series. I find it to be more enjoyable than Oblivion but not as fun as Morrowind.

However once the CK comes out and the modders get rolling this game may be the best TES yet. So if you are still undecided, I would wait for those modders to get rolling before you try this installment of Elder Scrolls.

That is not my conclusion, at all.

I can't, for the life of me, even begin to comprehend how people can say Skyrim is "shallow" as an RPG.

I don't understand why Morrowind's combat is seen as bad. It's different, in that it relies far more on character skill, but it plays out almost identically to how it does in Skyrim. In both games, you rush your enemy and swing at them until they die. Both have power attacks, both allow you to stagger opponents, both allow you to manually dodge incoming attacks. It's not like there's actually been any sort of tactical improvement made.

Agreed 100%.

I use fast travel so minimally that I literally forget it's there.

BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ATTRIBUTES OR SPELLMAKING, IT'S NOT AN RPG!!!

...is the response you will get.

What exactly do classes allow you to do in previous games that you are unable to do in Skyrim without them?

How is Skyrim's system so drastically different that it warrants you calling it "dumbed down"?

You can see your character quite easily by selecting third-person view. You can continue to see him through the transparent menus.

because many gamers today have the need for their games to be player-based rather than the traditional rpg way of things which was character-based.

but, you make a great point: everything else can be the same as far as tactics is concerned. only the actual pulling of the trigger is different: the real-time combat.

in fact, i think it be great if games were able to add an optional mode, like hardcoe, that allowed the game to use in-game character stats and got rid of the actiony-player based combat/skill use.

let's let the dev's actually get creative and develop this ability as an option. let's demand the advancement of games and their mechanics.

You are wrong, as you cannot change as you go.

Tell me where the option is to change perks.

Oh wait, you can't. Because you have to make a choice, and stick with it.

Thus, the element of choice is still in the game. Thus, it's not "dumbed down". You still have to plan out what your character is going to be, because perks are limited. Thus, you still have to -think-. Thus, it's not "dumbed down".

You don't know what you're talking about.

that is nothing like a menu that allows you to see your character and stats very clearly and adjusts as you equip different items.

BOTH options should be available.

Me too, Thalzzay, me too.

Not if the game incentivises fast travel, which it often does. Contrast this with with a quest like Silence (or whatever it was called) in Morrowind. You undertake a vow of silence and must travel from the bottom of the map to the top. This means no fast travel services like silt striders or boats or mages are available to you. Were it possible to simply open the map and have the game black out while you walk there, this quest would be meaningless. This might be less apparent with other quests, but it's still an issue.

"If you don't like it, don't do it" is a worthless answer. You could use that in response to basically any complaint about any of the game's mechanics.

Right, and I can understand that preference. But so many posts about Morrowind open with the, "Okay so we all know Morrowind's combat svcked, but..."

It bothers me... :/

Wrong again.

Each race has different abilities and powers - just like Morrowind and Oblivion
Races -do- have different starting Attributes - tell that to the High Elf that has increased Magicka, or to the Argonian who has increased Health regen...

The differences are -different- than they were in Morrowind or Oblivion, but there are still differences between the races.

I'm sorry, did you ever actually PLAY Morrowind? for even five minutes?
people say it's bad because it is. if you're a low-level character, then combat is a question of how often you hit. if you're a high level it's often how fast you can hit. I got bored with Golden saints because I had a long blade of 100 and an ebony longsword, and I killed them within 5 seconds of starting combat
From what I've seen from my new replay of the game(on PC this time) Enemies do NOT have power attacks. their attacks all move at the same speed.
There isn't any dodging attacks either because unlike in Oblivion and Skyrim there's no attack delay. If you don't know what I'm talking about, boot up skyrim and watch enemies attack. there is a gap between when they start the attack and when the attack actually lands. Look at Morrowind, and there isn't one. the only way to dodge is to not be in range-once they start the attack, it's almost impossible to dodge unless you're already moving.
And staggering opponents is a random event based on your skill in Morrowind. There was no way to deliberately cause them to stagger

Finally, morrowind's combat does not play even remotely like it does in Skyrim or Oblivion. Power attacks were actually different than regular attacks. In morrowind they were just extended versions of the regular ones. The latter two games actually have different ways they're used(try using a backwards power attack and a sideways power attack in Oblivion the same way. You will be amazed at the difference)

Morrowind combat took no skill to use, pun intended

Why remove classes? Because they made it better. If you need a "title" in your character screen to tell you what you are playing, then you sir are the one who is "dumbed down" and needs the game to hold your hand. If you need a "title" so bad, then go into MS Word and write down your character's class in a Word document. If you -need- that for immersion, then I'm afraid you have bigger issues than just whether or not the game has pre-defined classes or not.

Races are no more different in Morrowind and Oblivion than they are in Skyrim.

You mean to tell me an Orc Mage that boosts Intelligence up to 100 is somehow different than the Breton Mage that boosts Intelligence to 100?

You mean to tell me that I -can't- effectively play a Wood Elf tank in Morrowind?

Oh, so in reality, "now you pick whatever race is your favorite and jam 'accept'" is exactly how it worked in the past. Yup.

Fixed that for you.