[Connor Wing]

Link to previous thread http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1358571-mass-effect-thread-61/.

As we continue the Mass Effect series discussion, I have decided to add to the main post of this thread anyones Gamertag / PSN name / Origin Name (If they wish it) for an easy directory for the ME3 multiplayer.

Profile name from here followed by onling name:
XBL

Spoiler

born2beagator - born2beagator
Ledgend1221 - Ledgend1221
ol MISAKA lo - ol MISAKA lo
Riverstyx - Fireblade197
Undead Fiend - An Undead Lord

PSN

Spoiler

Origin

Spoiler

Emz - EmiW
Expresate - Expresate
SimpsonFly - SimpsonFly

Please keep in mind that this is to be a civil discussion about the Mass effect series, not a crucifixion of Bioware's development team.

With spoilers very much rampant make sure to put them in a spoiler to not ruin the game for people. The spoiler tags can be used like so [spoiler r] and the matching tag would be [ / spoiler] with no spaces and removing the extra r in the first tag. Below is an example spoiler.

Thread Rules:

• This is an ongoing topic for discussion about Mass Effect series, so keep the discussion on the games.
  
• It is understandable if you don't like Mass Effect games. We have no problem with you sharing this, but this is an ongoing topic. As such, it is primarily based on the positive aspects of the games, so if you don't like them don't post.
  
• This is an ongoing discussion and some people don't like Mass Effect games. If you try to provoke them it is just as bad. If you do disagree with someone, please don't drag it into a fight. This topic is primarily for what we like about the games and our ongoing experiences.
  
• Respect forum rules. If you are unclear review them here.
  
• Respect for other forum members is perhaps the most important. We all have opinions and we are all human beings. Treat each other with respect.

[nath]

For origin add Expresate.

[Daniel Holgate]

Right, anyway the one reason that there could be an ending DLC is that the game was rushed out the door without a proper ending, and a DLC would add the actual planned ending that they didn't have time for.

But I haven't heard anything about it being rushed so far.

[Yvonne]

Please, if they gave the endings they promised we would not only be praising them and taking about all the variations but people would be going back and potentially buying all the old games and DLC to see what impact They had on the end, peoe would have forgotten about the day 1 removed content to be sold back and went and bought that too. Not to mention how well any other DLC would be received. I think you are just doing some wishful thinking.

Maybe. At first, I thought the indoc theory stuff was wishful thinking. But the more I see BioWare's twitter posts and the kind of discussion they're trying to provoke, the more I believe that ending was intended to make us think critically, to educate us, maybe to prepare us for the Reapers turning out to be something more than we've been previously lead to believe.

But say we get a free DLC in April that provides a satisfactory ending. Will people change their minds? Would the month where we all thought the series had been given some s#^&@y ending really matter much?

Say April 1, BioWare gives us a big April Fools reveal and announces a patch or free DLC that will unlock the true ending. Will you be so upset about what you thought was the real ending or about being "deceived" that you won't download? I think you and a lot of other disgruntled players are not going to pass up that chance. And if it's a great ending that plays very well off of the phony one, you might think it was pretty cool how they handled it.

Or the next content they release will be Omega or a Batarian squad mate and even the hopeful people will have to live with weak ending being the real deal. So far, though, I've seen no reason to believe that's going to happen. Why would BioWare not just announce that the ending was real and there will be no patch/DLC altering it? Why let the backlash and the false hopes continue? Instead, all we're getting from them is "stand by," "we'll discuss the ending soon," "if you knew what we had planned, you'd feel differently" etc

[Georgia Fullalove]

It's called damage control. Now they are scrambling to come up with at least 1 satisfactory ending, from what I can tell its no more than a holding tactic. Even if, as you claim, this is all an effort to get us to think ( I still don't understand what the point of that would even be) it backfired hard in their faces with the massive returns, stocks dropping, word of mouth, etc. Hell I haven't even bought the game yet, and I won't until I see a free ending fix or it drops to $20 or below. And I'm sure there are hundreds like me

[Jessica Raven]

Right, anyway the one reason that there could be an ending DLC is that the game was rushed out the door without a proper ending, and a DLC would add the actual planned ending that they didn't have time for.

But I haven't heard anything about it being rushed so far.

I'm not so sure. BioWare would have known how important the ending would be to players. I think they'd be able to justify delaying the release again to do it properly. Yeah, I know delays upset people. But that doesn't seem to impact Blizzard too negatively. And the ending to this trilogy would have been way too important to snip for the sake of meeting a release date.

[Sheeva]

Maybe. At first, I thought the indoc theory stuff was wishful thinking. But the more I see BioWare's twitter posts and the kind of discussion they're trying to provoke, the more I believe that ending was intended to make us think critically, to educate us, maybe to prepare us for the Reapers turning out to be something more than we've been previously lead to believe.

But say we get a free DLC in April that provides a satisfactory ending. Will people change their minds? Would the month where we all thought the series had been given some s#^&@y ending really matter much?

Say April 1, BioWare gives us a big April Fools reveal and announces a patch or free DLC that will unlock the true ending. Will you be so upset about what you thought was the real ending or about being "deceived" that you won't download? I think you and a lot of other disgruntled players are not going to pass up that chance. And if it's a great ending that plays very well off of the phony one, you might think it was pretty cool how they handled it.

Or the next content they release will be Omega or a Batarian squad mate and even the hopeful people will have to live with weak ending being the real deal. So far, though, I've seen no reason to believe that's going to happen. Why would BioWare not just announce that the ending was real and there will be no patch/DLC altering it? Why let the backlash and the false hopes continue? Instead, all we're getting from them is "stand by," "we'll discuss the ending soon," "if you knew what we had planned, you'd feel differently" etc

I think your going to be very dissapointed.

Denial
Anger
Bargaining (people already asking for dlc)
Depression (I doubt you will experience this though)
Acceptance

[Elizabeth Lysons]

Even if, as you claim, this is all an effort to get us to think ( I still don't understand what the point of that would even be)

I'll repost my speculations since we're on a new thread:

Spoiler

Nobody is asking why the Guardian gives us the three choices he gives. Think about the choices. They all accomplish what we've been trying to accomplish for three ME's -- ending the Reaper threat. Yet they all feel wrong somehow.

Destroy -- kills the Geth, EDI, not to mention that you're basically wiping out whole intelligent 'nations' (Sovereign's description of the Reapers)
Control -- TIM's solution, which we were trained throughout the game to view as monstrous
Synthesis -- wrong all over, sounds like twisted mad science

And what do those three choices have in common? They're all things the Reapers do to deal with organics.

Destroy -- their response to resistance, destroying ships, blasting cities
Control -- indoctrination
Synthesis -- harvesting DNA to create new Reapers

Why would someone associated with the Reapers (the Guardian or Star Child) force Shepard to make these same choices? Maybe they're not trying indoctrinate Shepard. Maybe they're trying to educate Shepard.

Spoiler

The Guardian tells Shepard that he is "the first organic to reach this point" or something like that. Taken literally, it means "first organic to reach the Catalyst chamber." But what if it means "first organic to resist indoctrination?" Shepard has been exposed to a lot of Reaper technology and a lot of Reapers. He even walked away from two face-to-face conversations with Reapers. Yet his free will is in tact.

Saren told Shepard that the Reapers desired an organic with free will. But Saren didn't have free will. His proximity to Sovereign resulted in his indoctrination. What if the Reapers didn't intend for this to happen? What if indoctrination is never intentional? What if they can't engage in any kind of exchange with an organic or come into proximity with an organic for any extended period of time without indoctrination taking place? Except for Shepard. The first organic who's resisted indoctrination.

I'm considering the possibility that the Reapers are trying to explain themselves, trying to make organics understand why they're doing what they're doing, trying to make it clear that they do not enjoy wiping out civilizations and want another solution (to whatever the problem is -- dark energy or whatever). But they need an organic who isn't indoctrinated to help them achieve that solution. Saren failed them. TIM failed them (consider the Guardian's words -- "he can't control us because we control him"). Shepard, though, has retained his free will. Maybe this is why the Reapers have been so interested in him since ME2 ...

They're possibly opening our minds to somewhat difficult ideas -- that we have to look at the Reapers a different way. It's an alternative to treating them as the archetypal villain that just has to be wiped out with no regard. A period of discussion gets us all discussing the ethics involved (you already have lots of "which ending is best" threads) and, yes, generates buzz, gets people talking about the game. Good controversy sort of thing. That's only if we do get a free DLC with a proper ending though.

I'm probably not going to change your mind. I imagine you're looking at everything BioWare does now in the most negative light, so our disagreement is essentially over whether BioWare's staff is intelligent, in touch with its fans, and not being driven solely by a desire to profit. I believe that they are.

[Krista Belle Davis]

I think your going to be very dissapointed.

Denial
Anger
Bargaining (people already asking for dlc)
Depression (I doubt you will experience this though)
Acceptance

Not at all. I'm not one of the "hold the line" people. I'm probably stuck in Denial (or is it Suspicion?) right now. But as soon as BioWare tells me bluntly that there isn't going to be a proper ending, I'll shoot right to Acceptance. I won't demand a DLC or anything like that. I will lose a ton of faith in BioWare, as I will if they try to sell me an ending. I just don't see any cause to do that yet.

[Kira! :)))]

I'm not so sure. BioWare would have known how important the ending would be to players. I think they'd be able to justify delaying the release again to do it properly. Yeah, I know delays upset people. But that doesn't seem to impact Blizzard too negatively. And the ending to this trilogy would have been way too important to snip for the sake of meeting a release date.

True, but they aren't the ones who set the release date.

[Nicholas C]

I'll repost my speculations since we're on a new thread:

Spoiler

Nobody is asking why the Guardian gives us the three choices he gives. Think about the choices. They all accomplish what we've been trying to accomplish for three ME's -- ending the Reaper threat. Yet they all feel wrong somehow.

Destroy -- kills the Geth, EDI, not to mention that you're basically wiping out whole intelligent 'nations' (Sovereign's description of the Reapers)
Control -- TIM's solution, which we were trained throughout the game to view as monstrous
Synthesis -- wrong all over, sounds like twisted mad science

And what do those three choices have in common? They're all things the Reapers do to deal with organics.

Destroy -- their response to resistance, destroying ships, blasting cities
Control -- indoctrination
Synthesis -- harvesting DNA to create new Reapers

Why would someone associated with the Reapers (the Guardian or Star Child) force Shepard to make these same choices? Maybe they're not trying indoctrinate Shepard. Maybe they're trying to educate Shepard.

Spoiler

The Guardian tells Shepard that he is "the first organic to reach this point" or something like that. Taken literally, it means "first organic to reach the Catalyst chamber." But what if it means "first organic to resist indoctrination?" Shepard has been exposed to a lot of Reaper technology and a lot of Reapers. He even walked away from two face-to-face conversations with Reapers. Yet his free will is in tact.

Saren told Shepard that the Reapers desired an organic with free will. But Saren didn't have free will. His proximity to Sovereign resulted in his indoctrination. What if the Reapers didn't intend for this to happen? What if indoctrination is never intentional? What if they can't engage in any kind of exchange with an organic or come into proximity with an organic for any extended period of time without indoctrination taking place? Except for Shepard. The first organic who's resisted indoctrination.

I'm considering the possibility that the Reapers are trying to explain themselves, trying to make organics understand why they're doing what they're doing, trying to make it clear that they do not enjoy wiping out civilizations and want another solution (to whatever the problem is -- dark energy or whatever). But they need an organic who isn't indoctrinated to help them achieve that solution. Saren failed them. TIM failed them (consider the Guardian's words -- "he can't control us because we control him"). Shepard, though, has retained his free will. Maybe this is why the Reapers have been so interested in him since ME2 ...

They're possibly opening our minds to somewhat difficult ideas -- that we have to look at the Reapers a different way. It's an alternative to treating them as the archetypal villain that just has to be wiped out with no regard. A period of discussion gets us all discussing the ethics involved (you already have lots of "which ending is best" threads) and, yes, generates buzz, gets people talking about the game. Good controversy sort of thing. That's only if we do get a free DLC with a proper ending though.

I'm probably not going to change your mind. I imagine you're looking at everything BioWare does now in the most negative light, so our disagreement is essentially over whether BioWare's staff is intelligent, in touch with its fans, and not being driven solely by a desire to profit. I believe that they are.

Regardless of what the outcome or intention was or is they sure handled it badly. Just a question of how hard it bites them now.

[gandalf]

Regardless of what the outcome or intention was or is they sure handled it badly. Just a question of how hard it bites them now.

I'm still "wait and see" on that. If we get a DLC that expands the ending in a satisfying way and it's free, I'm not sure the few weeks of backlash will count for all that much. It's certainly killed their Metacritic score and Amazon rating and all that, but I'm not sure how much BioWare is concerned by that or how subject those ratings are to change later.

[Dean Ashcroft]

Bioware is playing a dangerous game here and it's not going to pay off for them if they continue in this way. They're facing 3 (ironically) choices at this point:
a- Continue doing what they're doing, causing a "bleed-out" of fans causing them to lose sales, as well as their stock dropping.
b- They announce that these are the true endings and there will be no alt. endings. The BSN suffers nuclear war from the fanbase, causing them to ban multiple people and / or shut down the forum for a few days. trade - ins will skyrocket from the people who finished the game and are hopeful for better endings....and so on, so fourth.
c- Announce alt. endings. Happiness for many, annoyance for some. The world will be a better place.

I like option c myself.

[meg knight]

“You all know the mission, and what is at stake.

I have come to trust each of you with my life -- but I have also heard murmurs of discontent. I share your concerns.

We are trained for cyber warfare; we would be legends, but the forums might get locked. Glory in battle is not our way!

Think of our heroes; Forbes, who rally our hearts with editorials. Or Gamefront, who have our backs against their profit margin!

These giants do not seem to give us solace here, but they are not all that we are.

Before the forums, there was the game. Before the game, there were PLAYERS!

Our influence stopped the Fallout 3 ending, but before that we held the line!

Our influence created money for kids, but before that, we held the line!

Our influence will stop THE COLORS OF RED, BLUE, AND GREEN; in the battle today, we will hold the line!

Never surrender, even in the face of armageddon.

[lisa nuttall]

Ah, preparedness is at 97%, war assets at 3200 and only 12 hours in.
This is good, because it allows me to go recklessly wasting people I don't like.

Spoiler

Let Samara shoot herself, because her zealot attitude was a liability. Then I shot her daughter, for the lulz.
Massacred the Reaper-Rachni.
As previously mentioned, I shot Mordin. This I felt bad about, but sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

Whenever I meet Legion, it's going down that's for damn sure.
Grunt survived, which is okay I guess. Now that the Krogan will die out I suppose I can tolerate the remaining ones.
Refused to end the suffering of the Batarian spy. Haw haw haw!
Conrad Verner survived being shot because I helped that bar spy back in Chora's Den. At least he is trying to make himself useful this time.

And much more.

If something ME3 does better than ME1 and 2, it's offering multi-choice for almost every single small errand quest. I like that.

Also got some awesomely good news from Hackett:

Spoiler

the Batarians will be extinct by the time the Reapers are down.

One more flock of undesirables out of my problem list.


I love ME3 because it allows so much taking out loose ends. Those that were useful to me in previous games can now be removed if they are in danger of becoming more trouble than they are worth.

[Lily Evans]

Ah, preparedness is at 97%, war assets at 3200 and only 12 hours in.
This is good, because it allows me to go recklessly wasting people I don't like.

Spoiler

Let Samara shoot herself, because her zealot attitude was a liability. Then I shot her daughter, for the lulz.
Massacred the Reaper-Rachni.
As previously mentioned, I shot Mordin. This I felt bad about, but sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

Whenever I meet Legion, it's going down that's for damn sure.
Grunt survived, which is okay I guess. Now that the Krogan will die out I suppose I can tolerate the remaining ones.
Refused to end the suffering of the Batarian spy. Haw haw haw!
Conrad Verner survived being shot because I helped that bar spy back in Chora's Den. At least he is trying to make himself useful this time.

And much more.

If something ME3 does better than ME1 and 2, it's offering multi-choice for almost every single small errand quest. I like that.

Also got some awesomely good news from Hackett:

Spoiler

the Batarians will be extinct by the time the Reapers are down.

One more flock of undesirables out of my problem list.


I love ME3 because it allows so much taking out loose ends. Those that were useful to me in previous games can now be removed if they are in danger of becoming more trouble than they are worth.

Wow, you really hate people.

Spoiler

I like how the racists who hate the Batarians always forget that their entire government was indoctrinated and making the shots to keep them isolated. When the Reapers showed up they practically handed the planet over. But oh no, let's not keep this in mind. Kill all those innocents, let them burn. Sometimes I wonder if the Reapers were right all along.

[Alexx Peace]

snip

They had three whole games (and as you have stated, multiple face to face encounters) to drop hints and allude to something more, doing it in the last 10 minutes and making literally every choice you have made for three games boil down to what color explosion you want, was the complete wrong way to go about it. I hope this isn't a ploy for more money and I hope I'm proven wrong, but I highly doubt that they will give is anything for free

[KU Fint]

But say we get a free DLC in April that provides a satisfactory ending... Would the month where we all thought the series had been given some s#^&@y ending really matter much?

Yes. People really hate being duped. If this is what they're doing, they have two brain cells doing their marketing and PR.

[Emma Pennington]

The only thing I think Bioware should do is explain what happens to the survivors after the end. That's where they failed. IMO. Leaving something to the imagination is fine with me, but here? After everything I did to get people to play nicely together in the ME3 universe, I'm left with... nothing. I have no idea what happened to the rest of my crew. I have no idea how the crew members I DO see even ended up on the Normandy.

I'm disappointed, but not for the same reasons that many others are. I don't care if the ending is happy, sad, indifferent, or whatever. I just want to be left with the feeling that everything I did actually meant something. And the ending I got? It didn't leave me with that feeling.

The journey was fantastic, but the destination sure svcks.

[Lisa]

About my name in the OP, you forgot the "d".

I really like the indoctrination theroy, makes so much more sense.

[Kelvin]

Ah more arguing and consporcy theories about the ending :popcorn:

This is why i love BioWare's games, if you count the drama they create their content rivals Bethesda's games

And Pistolero, you would make the Enclave proud Not to mention the Space Marines

Though i'm going for similar ending myself

Spoiler

No genophage cure for krogans, though i hope i can keep Mordin alive since i was very pro-genophage at ME2 and he agreed. Death to geth. Also spared the Collector base, but so far that has affect nothing

[x_JeNnY_x]

Bioware is playing a dangerous game here and it's not going to pay off for them if they continue in this way. They're facing 3 (ironically) choices at this point:
a- Continue doing what they're doing, causing a "bleed-out" of fans causing them to lose sales, as well as their stock dropping.
b- They announce that these are the true endings and there will be no alt. endings. The BSN suffers nuclear war from the fanbase, causing them to ban multiple people and / or shut down the forum for a few days. trade - ins will skyrocket from the people who finished the game and are hopeful for better endings....and so on, so fourth.
c- Announce alt. endings. Happiness for many, annoyance for some. The world will be a better place.

I like option c myself.

I think the damage is already done, regardless of whatever they do. I know I'm done with Bioware until they get their act together.

[Nuno Castro]

Anyone see http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/9992705/1?
Sounds like fun!

[Richus Dude]

Anyone see http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/9992705/1?
Sounds like fun!

Nah. There are enough grind fests out there.

Hold the line.

[naome duncan]

Anyone see http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/9992705/1?
Sounds like fun!

awww yeah...I'm thinking some MP is in order.