And by the same token what you are suggesting is that because it was in the old game it has to be in the new one, even though its not required or even helpfull. The developers decided they wanted to change it, and they did. And thats it as far as our opinions go. Its always the same when a game is changed, some old players complain its not the same game with a new pretty face, while some new players are perfectly happy to enjoy the game on its own merits. Of course there are people of the reverse mindset aswell, along with plenty of people inbetween.

The fact of the matter is the old system was just plain bad. The new one is miles better, and doesnt need 4 or 5 seperate ui pages to show it all.

What new System >_>

Yeah........because flipping through the horrible favorites menu and using the constellation/skill tree menu is sooooo much better than before.

No class specificty and free perking choice, is the new system


The constelations overlay is fine, its just the control of it that needs a bit of work. It displays every perk you can learn in the game all in one menu screen and in a simple to understand way.

The favourites menu is a seperate issue entirely, and I agree its terrible.

And yet the Skills menu requires a mind-numbing amount of scrolling, does not allow you to view what skills and perks you have all at once, gives no indication of just how many skills are available to you, requires blind navigation through the constellations, and only allows you to actually see one perk's effects at a time requiring even more scrolling due to bad screen-space usage.

I fail to see how that is an improvement.

You and me, we're the only ones who aren't complete idiots.

Haha JK, but yeah I agree with most of what you said and grilled leak sandwich cracks me up GG.

But yeah people can play however they want, although I worry about the the mental stability of some of these people who keep regular sleeping hours in a game, crazy.

Fire resistance on boots only goes to 70%.

It really seems more like you're the power gamer (maximizing character builds and getting the most out of your perks/skills) rather than a casual gamer who is a mix of power gamer and rpg-er.

Speaking of the favorites menu: you would think on the console they would have used the D pad .... up for say shouts. right for say items. down for say magic. and left for potions. Yeesh.

Oh, yes, and I guess I fall into the "power gamer" mentality. Nothing wrong with that. I pay my money. It's all good.

I could care less about everything elce honestly. It is your opinion, your play style, stick with what makes you happy. If you enjoy walking into a bank with a gas powered automatic rifle & killing the men, women, & children go ahead and have that luxry of fun.

The only part I see a point in stating is that. You are not 99%, all people who have a thinking mind play differently.

Thus making one person them self, for short a small percentage.

yes and no
yes to the overal tone
no to the nuclear bows

what I mean is this, diablo 1 had better game balance than diablo 2
what it means is that a fully maxed out character at diablo II could still find the game challenging and enjoyable (hell difficulty)
and this is verry important

most casual gamers (the 99%) don t want replay value, THEY WANT PLAY VALUE
they will create ONE CHARACTER, get attached to it,
and expect the game to be able to provide challenging oportunities forever
and, ideally, endless surprises

Diablo 1 excelled there, because each time you reloaded your game,
the dungeon was regenerated, so you didn t knew the layout
It kept the game fresh

I only played diablo 2 once, I played diablo 1 for many years
just the tiome required to get all the skills books to master all the spells took forever
and then of course getting dreamflange, which wasn t in a specific place, but random

Skyrim still has work to do there.
On end game chalenge and genral balance for sure
this was sloppy work, because the formula for armors is clearly written at uesp .net
and it show an exponential curve, wich the developers couldn t avoid noticing
easy to fix by changing the formula
this is like 90% of the problem solved in one shot

The second aspect is harder, because the layouts are fixed in skyrim,
but there are lots of dungeons, and lots of variety in those
what they need is a technology that allow both higher variability
(each respawn would spawn a different ecology, go throught a 10 step cycle for example)
and a variable density (using spawners or conditional spawn)

some of that technology bethesda aleady have.
the imperial questline used spawner, and the engine have script
furthermore, radiant quests can spawn stuff in dungeons and places
so they got what they need to do it
it s just a matter of doing it

IN YOUR SPECIFIC CASE
you don t have a problem with nuke launcher bows
because you are a SPECIFIC type of player that don t like crafting
just like some dont like melee combat
it is specific to you and no one else
if you didnt like magic, you wouldnt understand if someone had an issue with a mage specific bug
well, that s selfishness
I bet you didn t care when some peoples had hardware problems

(I don′t eat, sleep, socialize, brush my teeth or get cleaned in game. If I wanted to play a game about everyday chores)
believe me, this got nothing to do with everyday chores
the few games that did this well had nothing to do with the sims
in fact fairy tales handled sleep the same way you suddenly feel you need to drink an health potion
except the need is sleep, which isnt done in *real time* it takes a second
but it does require you to gameplay it ...
you are not going to sleep in front of a giant camp, right...

likewise, eating is verry similar, and you could make not eating at reasonable interval detrimental
again this is no different from drinking helth potions
omg my sleep bar is flashing
omg my eating bar is flashing
totaly identical to *my health bar is flashing, I need to drink a health potion*

but those 2 things would create a feeling of immersion into the world
a suspension of disbelief

and again, bethesda already got the technology to do it

(If it′s in the game it′s a mechanic, NOT an exploit)
I disagree. games are products. products can be well done or poorly done.
sloppyness destroyed more than one succesfull company
fixing game balance issues after release is a classic
just look at diablo 2 after lord of destruction came out
it didnt fix everything, but it did increase the challenge and the fun
the only mistake was to make broken things even more broken
(totaly overpowered barbarians and fire mages)

(We are the 99% of gamers...we like playing our games casually!)
you missunderstand casually I think
What it really means, is *I m having fun while playing*
Not *I will not notice things that svck*

Now, that said, skyrim is fun

(When I enter my home in Skyrim I go to the first container available)
I don t believe that one, because everything quickly make that container impossible to scroll through
the sorting system is verry messy and has limitations
a good house should have sufficient containers that are well organized

the perfect house would have a helper wizard that let you preset exactly
where you want what type of junk to go and send it there on clicking a single button
THAT sWHAT A CASUAL GAMER WANT, avoid wasting real world time

it would also have wizard for the alchemy laboratory that let you acess your alchemy ingeredients without necessarily having to sort through various containers when performing specific tasks

for example, the experimenter wizard would bring all ingeredients not fully experimented on, and then send them back to their containers when you are done

also other wizard would facilitate sending all your steel weapons from one house to the other house when you decide one house will become the steel weapon museum, for example, rather than doing it manually

You are reading the Skill books, right?

You are missing a lot of the game's history and lore by not reading the books. Plus, your missing out on some quests. However, you do not have to read them in game.

http://www.imperial-library.info/

Everything else is just your style of play and if it is fun for you, then that's the way you should play it. No one else can tell you otherwise. Well, except for ignoring the books.

he s missing some dungeons locations, quests and information as well, but then I suppose he didnt discover darkreach yet, the largest ingame dungeon, large like 25% of the outdoor map

I used to be a casual gamer like you......

then my knee hit an arrow ...

I wish the Quest Marker only pointed you to the Geographic location of someone, not pinpoint. Daggerfall's fun - It tells you what dungeon something's in, but it's up to you to find it - If you're a casual gamer, it may take a few days to finish the quest - but you have at least half a month anyway

But I agree that its' useful for findign things that move around, and identifying which dungeon I need to go to.

actually daggerfall give you the exact location when you get a quest.
In skyrim the compass only activate when you are VERRY CLOSE, and I do mean verry close
the only issue I got is it doesnt take in account mountains blocking your paths
it should do a check for visibility or something

otherwise it is credible, it represent hearing the sonds of giants, smelling the rotten decaying corpses of draugh, ... it makes sense

I kind of play very similar to you, I have only the weekends to play and If I didnt fast travel I would literally never get any of the vast amounts of pending quests done. Though I do find that some days I dont feel like doing quests and will spend a day just roaming and seeing what I find. Another day I will work on a main quest, or a civil war quest. I tend to fast travel when I have a load of smaller misc quests to do.

the only problem with fast travel is it s not well implemented
in daggerfall they simulated what happened during travel,
and if you attempted a long travel, you had a high chance of being interupted by an event

when I travel from solitude to , say ... wolfskull cave ... I almost always meet an event when doing it on foot
now why am I giving that example.... because it s the best harvesting spot and I m always there
so I know how much happen there

so ... trolls, thalmor patrols, bandits, ... you name it... I always get 2 encounters on that relatively short road

so the fast travel should stop us when something happen
be it a drogin, a giant, or a full stormcloack bataillion with 50 enraged stormcloacks armed to the teeth
or perhaps a horde of skeletons led by Potema herself

now the pc should be placed at a safe distance so he can go in stealth,
unless of course he was careless (not in stealth, or weak stealth) and this was a dark brotherhood ambush or something

You do realize the majority of the people on the forums are not casual gamers so I don't understand what you're going for here other than to incite a flamewar. What was your point anyway?

with the success of skyrim I m not so sure

You're not casual, you just have no imagination.

and is not hard to please...
and like to waste a lot of time by droping 1000 different objects in the same containers
and searching throught the mess each time he want a health potion

first thing I learned was to separate loot from usefull stuff,
then I got a little more fancy
so I could waste less time finding stuff, and more time playing

he s no casual gamer, just a casual time waster

Well that's boring. The way you play. You know. Just saying that's all.

One of the things about Skyrim that I like is its freedom. I can play it the way I want. It is designed with that in mind. On these forums there is a lot of elitism mixed with nostalgia viewed through pink colored glasses, though. So, if my way of playing is not intellectual challenging enough and I don't care for the old ways in which RPGs ought to be played and I don't share the love for those classic masterpieces then obviously I am a culture barbarian and a casual player. So new rules have to be invented or old and long forgotten ones need to be re-introduced to either protect the elite or teach the banol crowd to play the game "properly". It was fun to see the OP emphasizing that mechanism.

What an utterly pointless thread. Yeah, I know this post is just as pointless.

E: For a "busy working man with a family" you sure can find the time to try justifying yourself to random people on the internet.

Ummm, that's cool. I like to RP and you don't, cool.

I think the "serious" gamers here are putting a lot of people off by their rants about how "it's dumbed down for the casual gamer and it's not a good game because of it", insinuating that the casual gamer who enjoys the game is, by association, "dumb".

Of course, given that the common perception of the "serious gamer" is a mouth breathing troglodyte with the people skills of a flatulent ostrich who lives in their mothers basemant who still hasn't kissed a woman at age 32, have at it, angry serious gamers!

The 2nd paragraph is a joke. The first is serious. I am a serious gamer. I love my games, albeit I don't have as much spare time as I used to. When you carry on like pork chops with the absurd elitism, I side with the casual gamer, mainly because I am embarrassed to be associated with you. Really... elitism? Over a game? LOL! You may as well express elitism over your collection of toenail clippings.

I consider myself a casual gamer, but the option to totally immerse myself into this game (first TES-game I`ve played) when I want to do a bit of "make up your own little story as you go along" and also read up on the lore of the series is more than welcome. One house usually contains more backstory than the average fps anyway, so it`s a welcome break from the tedious day-to-day routine to actually check out another world. Kinda like WoW, but without those pesky bothersome thingy-thangs called "other players".
In short, I love the options to play the game however you wish to play it at that moment.

This^, Although I have had to time manage my sleep lol im down to 4 hours of sleep and several 10 minute naps whenever I find myself not doing anything at all like waiting at an office or when a lecture is pretty slow.

And this^ ha good one nuff said ^^

Get a full-time job and a girlfriend/wife and see how many hours you can play the game then. Not many. Skyrim is perfect for me as there are scenic routes in real life that I want to look at, NOT in a video game. The few hours I get to play Skyrim, I want to be in combat not doing stuff I could be doing in real life.

OP, No idea why you even bothered to write that [censored]. The reason RPers are complaining is because the series seems to be moving AWAY from what they like. You're pretty much complaining about the people who want options to play the way they want to. You get to, obviously. Some people want a more indepth experience, and TES used to be something that delivered that. It now doesnt. (Well doesnt to the same level)



Dude, a full time job consists of 8 hours a day. Lets say you sleep 8 hours and travel 2, that still leaves 6 hours to do whatever you want. If you have a wife or girlfriend who demands ALL of your time, I feel sorry for you. Mine is happy with a few hours before bed & being together for dinner.

I work in the military and work out 6 times a week, and I still have time to play the way I want to.

Edit, I dont play TES for combat, the combat kinda svcks in TES.(sorry people). If I wanted to play a game about combat I'd play BF.

Edit 2, I play the way I want, but dont play Skyrim all that much anymore, I prefere to play a proper RPG

If you have six hours of free time every day and spend a minor part of that time with your partner/family, then I think you have your priorities upside down...and it′s been long since the average proffessional who work full time spent only 8 hours a day with work, if you include overtime the average is probably closer to 10 hours.

I don′t really see how Bethesda has removed and killed all the possibilities of having a rpg-style approach, the only real differences from previous titles are:

a) remove attributes which in my opinion works completely against rpg-immersion since it forced you to grind skills

allow fast travel, which many people avoid doing, you aren′t forced to do it

c) give quest markers, which you can turn on and off

d) add perks, which though you may like them or not having NOTHING to do with the roleplaying aspect of the game

As far as I can tell you can still explore the world in any way you desire, join different factions, help townspeople - or daedra lords if you choose to, buy houses, eat food, cook, listen to bards...wherein lies the big problem for a rpg-style approach???

You know, it would be so much better if they could just make a brilliant, balanced, intelligent, challenging and complex RPG and then give a side team 2 months to dramatically simplify the features, screw up the balance til it's easily exploitable, reduce the enemy AI and make them far weaker while making the player stronger and add thousands of overpowered convieniences/bonuses and sell them as "Advanced Skyrim" and "Casual Skyrim" respectively. Even if they didn't do that, I'd rather they made the brilliant one and just added a super easy mode that minimises enemy health, awareness and skills and maxes their disposition permanently so the casuals could just [censored] around without thought or consequence.

Attributes were handled badly I agree but they are a core rpg function in MY opinion. Why not improve instead of remove? I cant be bothered trying to describe why I dont feel like it measures up, I'm sure about 50 people have already done so better than I ever could somewhere on the forum. I just wanted to mention that I have no problems with fast travel for those who want to use it, and the quest marker is understandable - it just svcks that they seem to have designed the game so that it is pretty difficuilt not to use them. Still don't understand the point of this thread, you're not going to convince me that this is a good rpg by telling me that I dont need what they've cut.

Haha like D&D then 4e kinda.

It has nothing to do with Eliteism. It has everything to do with the OP wanting a game dumbed down because he doesn't have time to play it. Guess what? That is his problem, why does it have to be mine?

Why should a series that I have loved since Daggerfall be dumbed down just to cater to those who don't have time to immerse themselves into an RPG. There are plenty of games that you can pick up and play and put down without any effort or time involved. An RPG should never be one of those types of games.

I don't call fighting for a more complex RPG "Eliteism".