That's hilarious. Go to Gamespot or IGN and say this. Go to Desura, N4G, and Nexus and see just how many people have said they lost interest when TESO was announced to be subscription and micro transaction based. You'll be flamed to death if you do.

All we are saying is an MMO is not food, water or shelter.

That is the whole point.

It is a fun time that some people are willing to pay for and some are not.

Exactly man. Some people are going to like it, some people aren't. There's legitimate reasons for both liking the payment model and disliking it. All feelings about it are valid.

Another thing about the "us vs them" attitude that you mentioned is if this is going to become a successful mmo it needs COMMUNITY. An MMO thrives off the players and who's going to want to play a game where everyone bickers with each other constantly about every little thing? I understand why people are both glad and upset about the direction they've taken the game in. Like I said, both sides make very valid points and I respect both opinions. I don't get why this is so difficult for some people to do, it just seems like people think that if someone likes or dislikes that they have to pay a monthly fee for the game that it will either make or break the game. Who cares, as long as people are still playing it and enjoying it and the community is good, really?

I said GW2 has a great marketing system and it's one that should be followed. People can play when they want without worrying about not being in the mood to play for a week or two, and people are happy because they don't feel the need to grind mindlessly and burn out just so feel like they didn't get cheated. When did I ever say It was a better game? When did I say I don't want to play TESO?

I'm not what you are saying has any real merit. Nobody knows how many people will buy or play ESO. Nobody. Feel free to guess, just like anyone else.

Are you suggesting that your opinion is better then the experts who gave advice to ZOS?

I have yet to see anyone say that are not willing to pay. Elven said he/she saved up 100 dollars to buy it, but was upset because she/he (rightly so) said it was only renting the game instead of buying it. I feel the same way, I'm more than willing to buy TESO for the standard 50 dollars for a high quality game, i would even pay the 60 dollar console price. But 200 dollars for just a single year and then I have to pay again? That's absurd and people are rightly upset over it.

I'm sorry, but a lot of people have. But please go on....

You have every right to be upset. Now, it's up to you to buy it or not. Options are great.

Well considering that they have already said they plan to abandon the subscription based system, and that we can see sub based MMos are losing people left and right to F2P and other models. By the way nice elitism, it really makes your argument seem persuasive (Sarcasm.)

Uh... I am not. I am getting annoyed that so many people are pointing to GW2 and saying "see, buy to play games work!". I'm simply saying "okay, it works if you think that game is good." It has lost a ton of players and I wouldn't use it as a success story.

2) No one knows how well the game will do. But if the game is as good as it looks to be, then 15 a month is a bargain.

Please name some then. Everyone i've seen post in this thread that is against the subscription system has said they are willing to buy the game if it didn't have it.

source?

So, are you saying that they are now not going with the P2P plan?

I'm not sure what you mean? Does it make me elite to be able to afford 15 dollars a month? I did not know I was so rich that I offended you.

Maybe if they gated it so that you only got ONE faction and no Cyrodiil.

I'm sorry, but it is not my job to go through the posts for you. This is a little silly, so let's not keep on this topic.

You're not actually renting the game. You're paying for a persistent online world that requires constant updating and maintenance. To me that's a lot more fair than say something like Steam where you purchase a single player game you can never really own should their servers ever shut down.

For the record, I'm dirt poor and currently unemployed. I could not afford TESO currently. Even so, I can accept the sub fee because the way I look at it, I believe ZSO is going to make this a very enjoyable experience. Part of my bias is that I really like the world of Elder Scrolls, yes, but I think a lot of work has been and will be put into this game. I actually would love to see it dethrone WoW and become to the MMO to go to. I remember I wanted so much to like Ultima Online because I'm also a fan of that series as well but UO became severly outdated. Hell, I'm surprised they still have the gall to ask for $13 a month and they have a cash item shop considering how old and desolate that game is now. To me, that's far more baffling than ZSO asking for $15 a month.

1. Like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, or Daggerfall? They'd been buy to play. It was fun, no?

2. Then what's with all the fanboyism? If you don't know how it will do, then how can you say it will be "Much better than game X"?

Oops, looks like you said something you can't back up. Makes you feel sort of silly, does it not

Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind and daggerfall are not on a massive server that need constant updating and maintenance just to function for any length of time. YOu can't compare the cost of a MMO to that of a single player game.

1) Single player games... irrelevant.

2) Yes, I am an Elder Scrolls fan. Thats why I post on these forums, and probably why I am so excited about ESO. Lets just call it a strong hunch. They are really focusing on quality with this game.

What do you mean by that? I have expectations that TESO will be a pretty good game, an hopefully it will be at least as good as the classics. However sacrifices are going to be made. Skyrim for instance was full of places of interest at each corner, but compared to TESO its landmass was small. TESO on the other hand will likely be a lot more spread out and sparse compared to Skyrim due to the amount of land that must be covered. There is always a balance to everything when it comes to a game. More land means more space that needs to be done, and if you have 50 people and a 30 million dollar budget then there is only so much they can do.

They also didn't have mini transactions that generate a constant stream of additional income. GW2 makes it work, as does WoT, LoL, and Rift.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9xsi2dYYv1qi0td3.jpg

I'm not sure I get your point.

Are you saying that you liked the way GW2 did their payment plan, so ESO should do it that way?

I'm saying you don't do ESO any justice valuing it at the same price as a single player rpg's. Even ones as good as Bethesda's. I really think you don't appreciate all that a game like ESO offers and that's why you put the value so low. If the game lives up to being the spiritual successor to DAOC and an Elder Scrolls Game, I will probably spend more time, just in Cyrodiil fighting for my faction, in Vanilla ESO than I put into all five playthroughs of Skyrim.