No realy... What was wrong with leg armour? : V - Skyrim

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:24 pm

I apologize, that is my opinion as to why this series is going downhill. Where in my post is what I stated wrong?

Am I the only person who thinks this?

How can nobody else see the removal of so much content from this series as a bad thing?

They remove the content 'cos it adds basically nothing.

The ability to... choose what trousers you're wearing! It's hardly immersion 101, is it. Who's enjoying picking their trousers? "What trousers are you wearing, Aberforth the Mighty?" "Oh I'm wearing some lovely Daedric Trousers." "You have chosen well, mighty warrior, for they have six defence points."

It's just clutter. It clutters the inventory, it clutters your chests, it clutters the game world, and it's a level of micromanagement nobody needs. If you hadn't already spent four games putting trousers on, you wouldn't be bothered in the slightest. And rightly so. It doesn't add anything. Just dead weight.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:51 am

IMO, the four armor slots we have in Skyrim are perfectly fine. I would've preferred five or six slots, but I don't think this is really something of much importance.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:20 am

"You have chosen well, mighty warrior, for they have six defence points."

LOL

"Six!? I only need three; one for the family jewels, and one for each knee. Huh? Why, yes, I have been conversing with the whiterun guards again..."

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:30 pm

Well different metals behave hugely differently when being forged. Bronze and Iron are very very different to work with, for example. The perks, for me, represent a conscious effort to learn how to work with a particular metal. It is a shame to miss out on daedric though, but seeing as that is derived from ebony armour, it figures logically that you'd need to be able to work ebony as a prerequisite.

As for skill level having an effect on one-handed, it still does, you don't have the skill level, you can't take the perks. And the damage still scales with the skill - for me, taking the +20% damage perks feels like getting a +5 strength increase in oblivion. Attributes and skill level working in tandem, perks and skill level working in tandem.

For smithing going 2 routes doesn't seem to be very customized and they should have put more perks such as the arcane one and less of copy and paste. And for the One handed skill, i know that leveling up the skill increases damage but the perk should not change this, This isn't really a "perk" its more of a limitation. Why are you trying to back up such a bad perking system?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:46 pm

Cos it's basically fine and offers a greater degree of customisation than a nice pair of trousers ever will?

LOL

"Six!? I only need three; one for the family jewels, and one for each knee. Huh? Why, yes, I have been conversing with the whiterun guards again..."

Always good to have backup, though. Say what you want about the Daedra, but ohhh, are they prepared.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:02 am

People also keep forgetting about the clipping issue. Sure, Morrowind had tons of customization(which I truly do enjoy), but the armor/clothes clipped through each other so much, it was absolutely ridiculous. That is, I think, one of the bigger unspoken reasons that separate pouldrons and greaves- Beth wanted to make it easier to design the armor they wanted to make. Before, their designs cut through each other all the time, and they've had to take some pretty drastic measures to make designs compatible with each other
As for clothes, there's one big reason Beth took them out from Morrowind to Oblivion-The armor designs all covered the gaps that previously exposed the clothes you were wearing underneath(like the back of the knees on daedric armor, or the elbows on Bonemold armor), so most of the time you couldn't see the clothes underneath the armor. No reason to add in an item you can't tell is there for the sole purpose of enchantment stacking(which was the only thing it'd be useful for)

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:43 pm

Cos it's basically fine and offers a greater degree of customisation than a nice pair of trousers ever will?

Always good to have backup, though. Say what you want about the Daedra, but ohhh, are they prepared.

Its a good idea but not executed properly. I would like to see a better perking system that doesn't have 5 perks based on damage. With useful perks added and the removal of these useless damage perks more customization will be able to be made with less of a perk that everyone gets because of its obvious dominance and limitation of the skill.

As for armor i hope in the next TeS we will see at least the same amount of customization as we did in oblivion. If we had the same customization as we did in morrowind that would be even better.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:45 pm

For smithing going 2 routes doesn't seem to be very customized and they should have put more perks such as the arcane one and less of copy and paste. And for the One handed skill, i know that leveling up the skill increases damage but the perk should not change this, This isn't really a "perk" its more of a limitation. Why are you trying to back up such a bad perking system?

I agree that Smithing really doesn't do much, unless you craft your own gear, but the damage-boost perks are more of an effectiveness rating. TO choose Armsman means that not only are you doing damage based on your 1H skill versus 2H weapons, but you are granted a percentage bonus because you're specializing in using one-handed weaponry, with the (likely) intent to master them. Furthermore, if you choose, say Bone Breaker, you've also chosen to specalize further in blunt weapons rather than axes or swords.

Are you telling us that you want to play as a character who is just as effective with an axe as they are with a sword, despite never touching a sword in their life?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:08 am

I agree that Smithing really doesn't do much, unless you craft your own gear, but the damage-boost perks are more of an effectiveness rating. TO choose Armsman means that not only are you doing damage based on your 1H skill versus 2H weapons, but you are granted a percentage bonus because you're specializing in using one-handed weaponry, with the (likely) intent to master them. Furthermore, if you choose, say Bone Breaker, you've also chosen to specalize further in blunt weapons rather than axes or swords.

Are you telling us that you want to play as a character who is just as effective with an axe as they are with a sword, despite never touching a sword in their life?

no as i clearly stated i was talking about the damage perk (first perk for armor skills and weapon skills)

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:45 am

The reason for less individual armor pieces is simply the size of the game. As the complexity of the world and NPC's etc has gotten bigger. It's harder to render all those individual pieces.

I don't really care that much about this issue, just so long as everyone realizes that this explanation is a LIE.

And if you don't get that, you should be banned from the forums for diluting the aggregate IQ of the community.

That's right, it's an excuse so stupid, it's made me a believer in eugenics.

Go test it right now. Twenty naked NPCs on a map will have the same framerate as twenty NPCs in full armor. Unless your video card is a repurposed graphing calculator.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:46 pm

Allright, I see your point. Damage-enhancement perks probably should be put later on in the tree, at least in your opinion, if not outright removal of the tree system and have a perk system like that of FO3/NV.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:02 pm

lol gone for a month, come back to see people complaining about pants.

ahhh good ol Skyrim comunity, you havent changed

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:27 pm

I seem to recall them saying it was an artistic decision.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:58 am

Submitted too early, needs to be deleted.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:55 pm

Todd Howard was quoted as asking, "What if Apple made a video game?" Well, if they did, it would be Skyrim. Skyrim looks fantastic in the ads just like Apple products. It's sleek and shiny just like an Apple product. It's over marketed and over hyped at the expense of depth and user interaction, just like an Apple product.

That's a perfect anology. I love Skyrim and The Elder Scrolls, but Skyrim streamlined a little too much. Oblivion had the perfect amout of equip slots, of course I prefere Morrowinds set up, but that's beside the point.

I wish they'd stop the streamlining before we end up with all in one pieces and whatnot. Elder Scrolls is kind of turning into babies first rpg..all weapons are now one or two handed instead of specialized, no medium armor option, attritubes are now just mana/health/stamina which are NOT appropriate replacers. What if I want a super fast and agile character? Can't. Stuck with the same speed at everyone else. Wanna hit harder? Better invest in that one handed skill that means you can jack of all trades every weapon that uses one hand from a sword to a tree branch.

Seems even though I love Skyrim and TES I have a lot of complaints...

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:50 pm

I explained it in my prior post, but in my opinion, what we lost was minor, while what we gained far outweighs what was lost.

The way I see it, we lost individual pauldrons, and a few armor slots, spears, medium armor, athletics and acrobatics, a few spell effects and Spellmaking, none of which really made any significant difference (save for Spellmaking, but I am of the mind that Spellmaking would not work with the current gameplay mechanics).

What we gained was Enchanting and Pickpocketing returning as skills, which offer character depth. Skills like dual wielding making it's debut, which offers character depth. Vast new styles of casting other than just "target", "touch", and "self" which offer a far more dynamic gameplay experience as a mage including finally being able to use legitimate necromancy of raising dead corpses (I will concede, however, that this didn't live up to its potential with the omission of many spell effects - and I'm not talking about Open Lock - and the fact that combined casting didn't make it in until hopefully DLC implements what we saw in the GameJam video). We gained perks which offer far more complexity to each individual skill that just a basic 1-100 grind (you can now specialize within specializations, meaning 2 level 100 Conjuration characters aren't the same - one may focus on necromancy, one may focus on atronachs, one may focus on bound weapons; Destruction characters may specialize in fire, frost, or shock; Heavy Armor characters can focus on either damage reduction, or utility, etc...). We gained full fledged equipment crafting with Smithing, which offers more depth than just Armorer did which again gives more options for the character.

We lost some basic stuff, yes, and it's sad to see a lot of that stuff go, but in the end, I feel what we gained far outweighs what was lost and gives me more control and flexibility over how my character develops than ever before.

Okay, yes that stuff is great.

Although Pickpocketing and Enchanting were in previous games, and are now making their way back. I just hope they do the same with all of the other cut content.

Dual-Wielding is also great.

I personally miss the touch spells, there was so much potential in them, that I wish Bethesda could have seen.

Perks are great, this is something I was very happy to see enter the franchise.

I just hope they can bring the old stuff back with the new stuff, because that would make this game so much better.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:21 pm

I find Morrowinds system too much. 17 items? That's a bit much.
I don't really care about the loss of greaves. The only problem I have is the loss of a second ring slot, but even that's not too much of a problem. Guess I'm not fussy :shrug:

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Why are you trying to back up such a bad perking system?

Because... ZOMG, maybe... he like is. *BOOM* mind [censored] exploded all over the damn place.

Heaven for-[censored]-bid someone likes something you don't.

I personally love passive damage bonuses vs active skills. If i can get a 20% bonus passive skill, I will take that every damn time.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:59 am

The reason for less individual armor pieces is simply the size of the game. As the complexity of the world and NPC's etc has gotten bigger. It's harder to render all those individual pieces.

Lies by Corporate Beth that you should never believe. In the CK there are more slots for amor/clothing than used by actual characters in "vanilla" (un modded) Skyrim. And guess what? Even with mods to actually USE those slots my game hasn't slowed down a bit.

Oh wait...we're talking about the inability of six year old consoles to do this. Sigh. Never mind. Woe to the PC gaming era.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:15 pm

Echonite: Heaven forbid someone criticise your beloved Bethesda...

On topic: I thought Daggerfall and Morrowind had an appropriate amount of equipment slots, Oblivion was OK, and Skyrim is lacking. If you really think about it, one-piece armor just doesn't make sense.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:20 am

That's a perfect anology. I love Skyrim and The Elder Scrolls, but Skyrim streamlined a little too much. Oblivion had the perfect amout of equip slots, of course I prefere Morrowinds set up, but that's beside the point.

I wish they'd stop the streamlining before we end up with all in one pieces and whatnot. Elder Scrolls is kind of turning into babies first rpg..all weapons are now one or two handed instead of specialized, no medium armor option, attritubes are now just mana/health/stamina which are NOT appropriate replacers. What if I want a super fast and agile character? Can't. Stuck with the same speed at everyone else. Wanna hit harder? Better invest in that one handed skill that means you can jack of all trades every weapon that uses one hand from a sword to a tree branch.

Seems even though I love Skyrim and TES I have a lot of complaints...

That's not true - re: all weapons are either just "one handed" or "two handed". No more than in previous games.

Weapons are either one or two handed, yes, but there are perks that allow you to specialize in swords, axes, maces, greatswords, battleaxes, and warhammers. Which ultimately would end up being the same as taking the Long Blade, Short Blade, Blunt, or Axe skills in previous games. So that hasn't been removed. And in fact, there are now different bonuses for each type. Swords are fastest, but do the least amount of damage. Axes are medium speed, medium damage. Maces / Warhammers are highest damage, but slowest speed. There is also critical strike / bleed / armor negation bonuses for each one.

Now, admittedly those bonuses are probably rather minor, however it is more than we've had in weapons in the past. The special power moves also still exist coming in perk form as well. So we actually haven't lost anything in that regard.

And having to invest in your One Handed perks to do more damage is really no different than putting attribute points into Strength to do more damage.

I also disagree with you on attributes, I believe that the current attributes and perks make up for everything attributes provided, and more. True, you can't adjust actual speed, however you can increase stamina, which increases sprinting ability, which allows you to move quicker, which allows you to create a quick and agile character. Just in a different manner than past games provided.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:51 pm

@Nell2Thalzzay validate me the lockpicking perk tree then? Half the skills there are completely pointless.

That has nothing to do with the perks system, and everything to do with the fact that they haven't found a good balance between combining character skill and the mini game when it comes to lockpicking. Security was an essentially useless skill in Oblivion too, so it's not the perks system that's at fault there, it's the fact that Bethesda currently hasn't found that balance.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:35 am

Echonite: Heaven forbid someone criticise your beloved Bethesda...

That has nothing to do with it. Trying to assert the perk system is crap is pure opinion. Meaning others might not feel the same. I for one like the system, others do not, cool. Leave it at that.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:30 am

It also completely defeats the purpose of wearing 10 rings if only one of them can be active, making needless redundancy, which is what Bethesda is getting rid of.

No it doesn't. Or rather, it's purpose is aesthetic. How am I supposed to play my pimp character with a single ring slot?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:29 pm

No it doesn't. Or rather, it's purpose is aesthetic.

At first I was like :facepalm:

How am I supposed to play my pimp character with a single ring slot?

Then I was like :rofl:

Well played, sir. :goodjob: