Talk to the Jarl of Markarth before getting too far into the Imperial/Stormcloak thing and he'll tell you that Ulfric and his followers were recruited to deal with the Foresworn in exchange for the freedom to worship Talos. It seemed to be working well until the Thalmor found out out about it. On that point the Imperials don't have much of a moral high ground to stand on.

The elves have decided your god Talos is false. They (the Thalmor) after fighting a war with the Empire signed a treaty with them that agreed upon peace if they banished the worship of Talos, the Nord god.

The elves have then imprisoned, tortured and executed those who openly worshiped Talos, or anyone they could accuse of such even without proper evidence. Supported by the Empire who have helped the elves capture such Nords.



Is it really to hard to believe that the Nords just want religious freedom? Here is the difference between Ulfric and Hitler. Hitler wanted to commit mass genocide of a religious people (much like the high elves are doing hrrm) Where as Ulfric wants to drive out the heretics who would kill his people for worshiping their own god, and the empire that blindly supports them (at the end of a blade none the less).



The Stormcloaks are more akin to the Braveheart. "William Wallace, a commoner, unites the 13th Century Scots in their battle to overthrow English rule."

Lets replace some words in that.

"Ulfric Stormcloak, a Jarl, unites the Holds of Skyrim in their battle to overthrow Empire rule."

The fact that the Nords want to drive the other races out of Skyrim in no way shape or form relates them to Hitler and honestly I am tired of hearing that comparison. Hitler wanted GENOCIDE. Ulfric has never uttered such a thing. Even though I am sure he wouldn't be sad to see all the elves die because of the jerks they are.

ulfric is an idiot, like that dude in riften says. the cause is true but the man is a lie

and i hate the imperials too

so i dont do the civil war, period

This is true too. From a militant point of view the Thalmor are doing a divide and conquer tactic here. The Empire has already lost support of Hammerfell which is a huge lost since Redguards are considered some of the best Warriors of Tamerial. Now they are facing losing the Nords who are also a great warrior culture, not to mention they are losing their own men trying to fight against them. Ulfric is a fool to weaken the empire instead of trying to help strengthen them. He has been a tool of the Thalmor and has played right into their plans sadly. This however doesn't make him a bad guy. Just a stupid tool who is more worried about his pride, greed and honor then the survival of men as a whole.

Which is why the Empire needs to abandon the morally bankrupt position of appeasing the Thalmor. If the Empire had the tiniest sliver of brain, they'd round up the Thalmor Embassy, put them all to the sword, support Ulfric's claim to be High King, and go on to retake Hammerfell, and crush the Thalmor outright. The Empire's cowardice is what precipitates the whole crisis. At that point, Ulfric stops being any kind of 'Thalmor Asset', he's just another loyal vassal of the Emperor, eager to avenge the wrongs the Thalmor have committed on his homeland.

Suing for peace only has merit when your can make friends out of your enemies. That's NOT the situation the Empire finds itself in with the Thalmor. Another war is coming, everyone knows it, so what purpose is served by delaying the war through the suffering of your own people? Men suffer the injustices of their enemies with grace and dignity, but they respond to the injustices of their rulers with rebellion. Why is that so hard to understand?

Hear hear!

Additionally, for all this talk I hear about Ulfric being a "racist" or having an agenda of "Nord superiority", has anyone actually listened to General Tullius' dialog? Its like he thinks Nords are backwards provincials that need Imperial patronage lest they devolve into grub hunting savages.

"Skyrim for the Nords!" is basically "My place for my race". It's an inherently racist statement. No, Ulfric doesn't stomp around ranting about how much he hates elves, but there are many kinds of racism.

No, Ulfric didn't put Dunmer in the slums, but he also doesn't do anything to fix it. No, the Dunmer are not helping Ulfric, but he doesn't exactly endear his cause to them by overlooking robbery and murder. Yes, the Dunmer were slaving xenophobes in their own land (except for all the ones who weren't), but only because they entered the Empire on their own terms, which included "Vvardenfel for the Dunmer!". Look at how that turned out.

Then again, it's also possible that Ulfric doesn't care about the Nords or Skyrim, and just wants to be king. In that case, he's not a racist, just an idiot.

I agree with the initial post on the correlation between Ulfric's Skyrim and 1930 Germany.

The reasons for considering the Stormcloaks the good guys are the same reason AH was popular in all of Europe before Germany invaded Poland.

The Nords, like the Germans, are naturally proud people. Proud of their accomplishments, their way of life, their culture, their race.

Skyrim got a raw deal at the end of the Great War. Nords who grew up going to church with Grandma are now told it is a false diety and they can't do it. The Empire is calling Grandma a liar?!

The Empire didn't get defeated by the Altmeri Dominion... the Empire quit! From a Nord perspective if you are still alive the battle is still on. Clearly no elf defeated me because I stand before you with my axe in hand!

Its bad enough that you want to weaken the power of the local Jarl by increasing the power of the Empire (my family has followed that Jarl family for 7 generations?! And now he ain't good enough?) but you are an elf. My great uncle lost his job at the mill to a dark elf who came uninvited after screwing up his own land. For surely when the Nord is upset he isn't going to understand that the dark elves were not at fault for the red mountain blowing up (notice how they blamed the college for that disaster as well) The Nords have shown that when upset they have a tendency to act first and think second.

It all boils down to Joe Nord gets up in the morning and can't pray to Talos. Then he walks to his job at the mine only to have to see his best pal (and our Da's were best pals... and our granda's before that... and our great granda's before that... ) unable to get work at the mine while some newcomer orc or elf has no problem getting a job because he has some papers that some High Elf signed?!

Then after putting up with a hard work day all he wants to do is go to the local pub and commiserate with his best pal. When he arrives all the pretty girls are talking to the Empire guys! And when he complains about it his buddy points to the Elf in the corner watching him and he worries about getting thrown in the pokey if he speaks his mind.

And along comes Ulfric who fights like a man. He makes Joe Nord proud to wield an axe. He tells Joe Nord that he is better than second class. He offers Joe Nord an opportunity to hold steel in his hand and do something solid to improve his life. He doesn't have to sit around and wait for Empire Handouts. He can take matters into his own hands. He can be part of something larger than himself. He can be doing a good cause along other likeminded people who are also upset. And he can do it for God and Country.

From the Nord perspective Ulfric carries a big stick and isn't afraid to wack the biggest guy on the block with it. Hell yeah, I want some of that!

Well, that long patronizing post only proves one thing- the Stormcloak rebellion is similar to WWII in that it is, in fact, a war, in which people disagree over something and are willing to kill for it. So in that way, I agree, Ulfric is just like Hitler. Ulfric is also just like Roosevelt and Churchill, who were unwilling to let enemy encroachment on their allies and home turf to go unanswered. So sure, the OP's almost entirely useless anology has some small validity. Ulfric is a war leader, and the rebellion is in fact a war.

The Dunmer have been in Skyrim for 200 years, and some of them longer than that. The orcs have been in Skyrim since before the Nords came, according to them. They aren't some newcomer who up and took the redneck's job. Nords aren't complaining about unemployment, they're complaining about their leaders surrendering and frittering away the sacrifice they paid in blood to save the Imperial City.

To be fair the Dumner have not done anything to help themselves in the last 150 or so years.The ones in Windhelm any way.

Do you consider chants of "USA USA" at the olympics to be racist or nationalistic?

HAH! What Blood?! Its the imperials who nearly sacrificed everything, The war barley touched skyrim!!!!(Its aftermath however is another thing...)

some characters i have heard in Riften...have said that although the Stormclock ideals are good...Ulfric himself really only cares about himself. Though i don't know if that is actual truth...or just personal bias.

Many, many nords fought in the Imperial Army, including Ulfric and Galmar Stone-fist, who were at the Battle of the Red Ring. It's not the Nords' fault that the Thalmor invaded Cyrodiil rather than Skyrim. It IS the Empire's fault that their leadership betrayed their own subjects to buy peace with the Altmeri Dominion.

some characters i have heard in Riften...have said that although the Stormclock ideals are good...Ulfric himself really only cares about himself. Though i don't know if that is actual truth...or just personal bias.

Ulfric has amply justified his rebellion, what I haven't seen is the Empire justifying their repression of their own subjects. Now you may not agree that the Stormcloak cause is sufficient justification for rebellion, but at least they've offered one.

Betray? Betray how?! Titus made Peace with the thalmor so his subjects would survive, That battle of red ring was a major victory, and guess who planned the attack...Titus Mede II, Who lead the attack? Titus Mede II. Without Titus Man kind would have fallen!!!!!

Regardless of morality, I agree with the people saying the entire war is just a divide and conquer tactic by the Thalmor. If the Empire, with all of its strength, couldn't defeat the Thalmor in combat, then the Nords of Skyrim have no chance. Not even with the Dragonborn. The Thalmor's armies will come. It's only a matter of time.

What needs to happen is Ulfric and Tullius need to sign a peace treaty (isn't that an option in game?). If they fight together they have a far better chance of driving out the Thalmor who's only agenda is the annihalation of the world (and their return to Aetherius).

I used to be on the side that said "Ulfric is an asset. Boo." But, eh, the Empire is even more of an asset. Can't really say either side is "evil." They both have good people working for them that truly believe what they fight for. If the races of men want to survive, they need to fight together. They can settle the whole Talos debacle after the Thalmor are neutralized. I'm sure the Empire would be more than agreeable (considering Tiber Septim was an Emporer.)

This is what I'd like to see become canon.

I also tend to side with the Empire because I see a weekend Empire still being more of a challenge to the Thalmor than the armies of Skyrim.

There is a successful Dunmer in Windhelm. He's related to the King of Morrowind. He owns a modest farm outside of town. Not a single other Dunmer has been able to advance socially in that time. So, either there's something wrong with the Dunmer race, or there's something wrong with Nordic society. Holding the first opinion is the very definition of racism, and that's what the people under Ulfric seem to believe.

When you first enter Windhelm, there is a racist drunkard threatening to break into a woman's home and torture her to death, openly and in front of the authorites, and nobody stops him. There's a man complaining about living in sewage to one of Ulfric's men, who doubts Ulfric will even care enough to listen.

You don't "help yourself" in a society like that. You're lucky just to survive it.


It's not "Skyrim for Skyrimites!" It's "Skyrim for Nords!"

If you've lived in Skyrim since before the oldest Nords currently in existence were born . . . well, I guess Skyrim's not for you, because you're not a Nord, are you? Get back in your sewer until you get some political clout.

It is easier to see it as the American Revolution, pros & cons equal to one another in both areas.

Or traditionalist Nord and Dunmer cultures living together causes friction, resulting in social issues in Windhelm that neither party is entirely the cause of, and which can probably only be solved with time and increasing understanding (from both sides). If it's worse now than before the war should be considered as a likely cause.
Also, the surname 'Hlaalu' does not imply a blood relationship with Helseth.

No, it's "Skyrim belongs to the Nords". It's the difference between shouting that outsider should leave and shouting you desire sovereignty. Not exactly something you want to misquote.

So you have allowed yourself to become predjudice against the Stormcloaks due to your intial impression from the 2 drunks in Windhelm thats fine.

Nord society in Windhelm has many non Nords who are doing quite well.
Nord's in general seem to think respect is earned,A gift given to often loses value as it were.
Perhaps the Dumner in Windhelm think the Nords are not worthy of their respect and that could be the reason they are unwilling to do anything.There is a book that would seem to back up that line of thinking.

One of Ulfric's generals is friendly to the Dunmer. When you first go to the Gray Quarter, he is listening to someone complain about the horrific conditions, and he says he sympathizes, but that Ulfric will probably not listen to anyone about helping his elven subjects.

Ulfric does not care about the Dark Elves' suffering. Straight from the Stormcloak's mouth.


Yes, which does nothing to erase the racally ghetto right outside Ulfric's home that he, personally and according to his own men, adamantly refuses to even address.


They aren't.

All Nords are unworthy of Dumner respect..now I understand.

Comparing Ulfric to Hitler is like comparing a playground bully to a serial killer.

Now them's fightin' words.

I'm a little bit shocked to see people defending Ulfric's blatant racism.

Before I ever bought Skyrim (indeed probably why I bought it) was an article I read in a newspaper about Skyrim's racism.

Its not inherently racist. Its a statement of political autonomy. It is a declaration that Skyrim can be better governed by its own people than by Imperial patrons.

Ulfric didn't exactly cast them out, or force them to buy their hospice with generations of slavery. He allowed them to take residence in his city. Tough break that they have to start off at the bottom. In that respect the Dunmer are like every other population in exile as refugees. The fact that he can't provide a bountifull Utopia for all is not an indication of racism.

He says he believes in the Stormcloak ideology and furthermore undertakes the actions to prove it. We can imagine alternative scenarios all day long, but if we use occam's razor its far easier to believe he actually does care about the Nords and Skyrim (even in the presence of political aspirations).